Yahoo News: U.S. eyes ways to toughen fight against domestic extremists

This article was written by Julia Harte, Julia Edwards and Andy Sullivan and published at Yahoo News on February 04 2016

Editor’s Note: Incredibly, mainstream media continues to harp the same old government line about Timothy McVeigh single-handedly blowing up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City despite all the evidence of other bombs inside that building, bombs which Tim McVeigh did not know anything about. The authors, either wittingly or naively, managed to use a photo of the bombed building taken after the debris (which had been blown all over and across the street) had been cleaned up. Nice, that.

Despite all the evidence showing that the building was blown outward instead of inward (from a truck bomb parked outside the building), the fedgov is milking that bombing, and its own lies about the bombing, for all its worth.  Now the mainstream media is trotting out the bombing to couple that deed with the new “anti-government extremist” threat. It’s as if the lying sacks of s*** working in government need to reinforce the fear in all Americans that those “extremists” are going to blow up the nation if the FBI and other fedgov enforcement groups don’t get permission to go after the trouble-makers with a new round of anti-terrorism laws focused on American citizens who are hip to government’s lies. The building was blown out, and we have four-star General Benton K. Partin’s report to the U.S. Senate showing clearly that it was not blown “in” from the truck bomb. We also have Oklahoma Representative Charles Key’s investigation which  shows that the government is lying about the bombing.

okc_bombing2For the record, no one is saying McVeigh did not park that truck bomb out front – I am saying that in *addition* to that weak fertilizer bomb in the truck the ATF had stashed heavy ordnance inside that building long before McVeigh arrived on the scene. The building was blown “out”. Period. McVeigh was a useful and willing dupe being handled by the FBI.  (Think – John Doe II)

Be that as it may, the bombing is now resurrected by a government desperate to tighten the noose on all dissent against oppressive government tactics, such as was yesterday shown by the arrest on bogus charges of Cliven Bundy in Oregon. Dissent is now being demonized as “domestic terrorism” by “anti-government extremists”.

 

This story is a cheap shot at best, a weak attempt to further empower our Big Brother government to dispose of any citizen who has wised-up to how government grows itself, and the government needed something to back it up, something most Americans still think happened in the way the government has claimed. Of the excerpts I’ve included below, pay attention to the last paragraph and tell me if Oath Keepers is destined to be branded as “anti-government extremist organization”. Well, we were at Bundy Ranch, were we not? And we were at the Sugar Pine Mine, and the White Hope Mine, and at Ferguson, Missouri, daring in each instance to demonstrate our right to keep and bear arms and to peacefully assemble and to speak our consciences. A rogue, tyrannical government tends to discourage that sort of thing, and that is the purpose of this sought-after new legislation, described in the article below.

The long and short of it is that if we object to our government operating outside its founding legal charter’s restraints on government, we’re now to be branded as “anti-government”.

Over the years I’ve been interviewed by reporters/journalists, including one bright guy from BBC who kept asking me if I would describe myself as “anti-government”. I keep telling the idiots that I am not “anti-government”, but instead, I am “anti-crime-in-government”. The anti-government people are for the most part those in public offices who violate the highest law of the land, frame innocent citizens, plant “evidence” on them, violate citizens’ rights, operate outside lawful bounds, and propagandize the public mind full of wild tales against anyone who sees through their sinful crimes against the people. Lawmakers, on the average, can’t wrap their heads around this idea, and think they are serving the Constitution when they vote in this sort of idiocy to expand government power. There is no hope for America remaining in the political arena, no help to come out of that cesspool inside the beltway. We are left to fend for ourselves and our cries are ridiculed by silly articles like the one below.

Salute!

Elias Alias, editor


 

The Alfred Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City after a car bomb ripped through it Wednesday, April 19, 1995. (AP Photo)

The Alfred Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City after a car bomb ripped through it Wednesday, April 19, 1995. (AP Photo)

U.S. eyes ways to toughen fight against domestic extremists

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. Justice Department is considering legal changes to combat what it sees as a rising threat from domestic anti-government extremists, senior officials told Reuters, even as it steps up efforts to stop Islamic State-inspired attacks at home.

Extremist groups motivated by a range of U.S.-born philosophies present a “clear and present danger,” John Carlin, the Justice Department’s chief of national security, told Reuters in an interview. “Based on recent reports and the cases we are seeing, it seems like we’re in a heightened environment.”

Over the past year, the Justice Department has brought charges against domestic extremist suspects accused of attempting to bomb U.S. military bases, kill police officers and fire bomb a school and other buildings in a predominantly Muslim town in New York state.

But federal prosecutors tackling domestic extremists still lack an important legal tool they have used extensively in dozens of prosecutions against Islamic State-inspired suspects: a law that prohibits supporting designated terrorist groups.

Carlin and other Justice Department officials declined to say if they would ask Congress for a comparable domestic extremist statute, or comment on what other changes they might pursue to toughen the fight against anti-government extremists.

The U.S. State Department designates international terrorist organizations to which it is illegal to provide “material support.” No domestic groups have that designation, helping to create a disparity in charges faced by international extremist suspects compared to domestic ones.

(snip) Read whole article on Yahoo News –

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-eyes-ways-toughen-fight-against-domestic-extremists-060402478.html

 

 

Comments

  1. Ol' Rono 12 February, 2016, 06:12

    You wrote it good Elias. Domestic terrorists my eye. Government sponsored terrorism, yes!

    Reply this comment
    • Elias Alias Author 12 February, 2016, 06:18

      Ol’ Rono, thank you for reading it, but I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask you, if you would, to read it again. Just after you read it and left your comment here, I edited in some more vehemence, lol. Did you see that vid of John Wallace of New York Oath Keepers? I snuck that and some more words into the article as afterthoughts.

      Glad you like the article. After all the crap which has gone down in the past two days, and LaVoy’s murder, I felt like letting loose with a rant. Hope I did not step on anyone’s toes, yes? 😉

      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

      Reply this comment
      • ecruz 13 February, 2016, 14:08

        Question. Are there any events that you all don’t believe are staged?
        I am wondering becuase maybe you are not even there…you are an illusion of your own self…explain please.

        Reply this comment
        • sp 15 February, 2016, 01:14
        • Elias Alias Author 15 February, 2016, 02:08

          ecruz, of course we all know about the Buddhist’s world of illusion, called Maya. But in that knowing are inherently embedded at the electro-magnetic nano-quantum sub-gravitational vibratory dance of a cosmos caught by the naked eye dancing within itself, leaving us at last to know only that we don’t know. But now that we know that we don’t know, we’re wanting to know how we can know that we don’t know, right?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiPe1OiKQuk

          Personally, my fun-seeking ‘ego-over-ridden’ thrill seeking sinner’s self decided, without my permission, to long ago make a hobby of collecting conspiracy theories. My ego amuses itself that way, and since it’s all done as harmless inner activity, I allow it, even though it sometimes wafts through my subconscious meanderings and merges itself into something I publish on Al Gore’s Internet. But listen, Bro — I’m not taking responsibility for anything. Nope. All this craziness we’re seeing in our “best of all possible worlds” was already going on full time when I got to the planet.

          That said, I probably shouldn’t do this here, but I’m feeling a bit playful tonight, so here ya go — an answer worthy of your question:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5enu1j8GwY

          Salute!
          Elias Alias, editor

          Reply this comment
  2. ZebBlanchard 12 February, 2016, 07:47

    The persecution of veterans BS accelerated in 2009 when the DOJ published Operation Vigilant Eagle. OVE contained the SPLC “list” of right wing extremists, including us. Sovereign citizen , in the pejorative, branding followed OVE and both are used at trial of a veteran who is perceived to have advocated too aggressively.

    I will try to make another attempt at making this point at a veteran’s fair being hosted by my duly elected good man and true weasel. The last attempt was an exercise in futility as I was “walked out” before I could speak. We hope to have numbers in this attempt to see if the pol can stand the embarrassment of evicting several veterans.

    Bottom line: we all need to sit with our Sheriffs, make them know who we are and what we stand for. Make a list of every Sheriff in every county and visit every one. Leave them a copy of Sheriff Mack’s book and a pocket Constitution.

    Reply this comment
    • Elias Alias Author 13 February, 2016, 11:16

      Thank you for that link. I really like the Corbett Report, but had not seen that vid before you sent it. Corbett rocks!

      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

      Reply this comment
  3. WGP 12 February, 2016, 10:16

    The “Enemy” list is now the “Terrorist” list, soon to be the “Eliminate” list; all with massive public support. First they condemn, then they prosecute and then they eliminate. Just ask top three experts: Stalin, Mao, Hitler. Recall the others on the evil list:
    Chiang Kai-shek (China: 1928-49)
    Enver Pasha (Turkey: 1913-18)
    Hirohito (Japan: 1926-89)
    Hirota Koki (Japan: 1936-37)
    Ho Chi Minh (North Vietnam: 1945-69)
    Kim Il Sung (North Korea: 1948-94)
    Lenin (USSR: 1917-24)
    Leopold II (Belgium: 1865-1909)
    Nicholas II (Russia: 1894-1917)
    Pol Pot (Cambodia: 1975-79)
    Saddam Hussein (Iraq: 1969- )
    Tojo Hideki (Japan: 1941-44)
    Wilhelm II (Germany: 1888-1918)
    Yahya Khan (Pakistan: 1969-71)

    Now we have the left progressive useful idiots following the state run main stream media right down the same path. The Millennial generation will put a leader in power to eliminate those the current Islamist in the White House put on the “Enemy” list. No doubt in my mind the progression of evil repeats over and over and over again. The USA, the country we gave great sacrifice to defend its Constitution, no longer has a constitutional government. I see no path to educate the general public who today know zippo of constitutional law, albeit we try.

    Reply this comment
  4. Reader 12 February, 2016, 10:45

    Returning home from Burns, I was quickly made to understand education is fruitless if refusal to consider all the evidence rears its head.
    A woman with whom I had a chance encounter did not care that at no time did the folks at the Refuge ever threaten or intimidate anyone with firearms. Even in videos on the Refuge itself featuring LaVoy Finicum, when the reporter particularly speaks of the “armed occupation,” the group In the feature is shown without firearms.
    It does not matter that time and again people heard “we are not here to threaten anyone,” we are asking for our petitions to be heard!
    When she was unsuccessful in defeating my argument that they were not “militants,” that they were not “terrorists,” all she could do was decry how these people were bulldozing the land and destroying artifacts.
    Persons such as she are unaware of an injustice imposed upon similarly quiet people years ago.
    They too were abused as now the ranchers and occupiers of the Refuge in today’s controversy have been.
    Do you believe anyone cared to acknowledge their complaint long years past?
    One hundred thirty eight years ago, the Bannock Indians of Idaho were abused by the United States government as were the Paiute Indians of the Malheur Range. This particular injustice lead to the Bannock War of 1878.
    It is a different time with different players but with the same injustice.
    I cannot say I am not sympathetic to the Paiutes and indeed if anyone has rightful possession to the land, it is they.
    I guess what I am saying is, injustice shows no favor and disrespects all its intentions are directed against.
    Perhaps what is even more significantly overlooked, is a treaty with the Paiutes was never ratified and it continues unratified to this day..
    Do you think they don’t believe they have not been marginalized!
    Without desiring to inflame old passions, I say these things now because indiginous or not, we are now all Americans.
    We are all under the same Constitution and the stirring words of the Declaration of Independence: “all men are created equal.”
    The Paiutes may disagree because as continued to be observed, some appear more equal than others.
    Injustice is yet injustice.
    The difference in this case being the characters have now changed.
    One has got to consider who it is the extremists are?

    Reply this comment
  5. Reader 12 February, 2016, 11:07

    Obama is setting aside an additional 1.8 million acres as monument lands in Southern California and is expected to make the announcement today.

    Reply this comment
  6. 11bCib 12 February, 2016, 17:48

    Just when I was thinking about making the move to join Oathkeepers…slapped in the face with ice cold water. McVeigh killed those children. There was no government conspiracy here. The ideas proposed in this article only distract from things the government is truly doing.

    I am so out…running far away from this “Patriot” stuff. I really thought there were groups out there with vets that would stand up when needed, but I will rely on the general populace. Maybe there will be hope there. Not in a group that dishonors the memory of so many dead Americans in such a self-serving, dishonest way. Gross. Thank you for the wake up call, I obviously needed it.

    Reply this comment
    • Elias Alias Author 12 February, 2016, 22:19

      >You noted: “The ideas proposed in this article only distract from things the government is truly doing.”

      I beg to differ with you. The ideas in this article most assuredly point directly to the things this “government is truly doing”. Would you deny that the government is heavily involved in manipulating the public perception? Do you deny that the government is involved in “MindWar”? Do you deny that the government is involved in psychological operations under the rubric of “Unconventional Warfare”? Do you think the government tells We The People the truth? What, I must ask, do you think the government is “truly doing”? I mean, if you were considering taking the plunge and joining Oath Keepers in the first place, why would you even be thinking about that? What do you think the government is doing, if not controlling the public perception and doing whatever psy-op is necessary to engender the proper response in support of the desired support for further encroachments on the American people’s liberty? What caused you to consider joining the patriot movement in the first place, if you did not think the government was up to mischief? What this article is showing you is that the corruption runs deeper than surface level appearances, deeper than most Americans think, and that the media and press work hand in hand to promote government’s desired public perception, perception which would favor their desired policy. Have you looked at the Northwoods Document…

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

      Linked from that Wikipedia article is this link from the National Security Archives at George Washington University, where you can read the document which was kept secret from the American people for almost forty years (1962 – 2000) – The Joint Chiefs would kill Americans in a “wave of terrorism” to get the public to support a military invasion of Cuba.

      http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

      … which reveals that the Joint Chiefs of Staff under McNamara/Kennedy literally proposed to the President that special ops warriors should blow up buildings in Miami and Washington D. C. or other cities and blame that wave of terrorism on Cuba, so that the public would support the Pentagon’s desire to invade Cuba militarily? Remember the Bay of Pigs? Do you know what is behind that fiasco? Do you know why President Kennedy fired Allen Dulles from the head of CIA?

      General Partin spent his career in ordnance. He investigated the bombing and reported to Congress. Did you bother to read the facts at the links I provided? Representative Charles Key is a legitimate gentleman who served Oklahoma as a Representative during the time of the bombing. He has published his findings from his own investigation, which bears out what I’ve published above. Friend, I know this is hard to grasp the first time one is confronted with it, but the facts are facts. Yes, McVeigh was complicit in killing those children, but so was the ATF. My God, Bro — did you not see the ATF’s confession to having stored ordnance in large quantities inside the Murrah building? These are known facts, as ugly as they are. Clinton had been having trouble getting his anti-terrorism bill through Congress until the bombing in OK City, after which the legislation sailed through.

      You said > “I really thought there were groups out there with vets that would stand up when needed…”

      Stand up against what, exactly? A bunch of government flower salesmen? What causes you to think that Veterans should “stand up” against something, if not federal corruption? If there is a sign of corruption, should we not look more closely to see how deep that corruption goes? Are you shocked so severely by my article that you are now willing to close your mind to logical proof when it is offered to you? Let me ask you this please —

      Are you aware of the TV broadcasts on the morning of April 19, 1995, from downtown Oklahoma City news stations? Are you aware that the FBI shut down any replays of these film clips by that afternoon? Have you not see these clips before? What should America think about the heralded fact that other bombs were found in the Murrah building — not just “ordnance”, but actual bombs? I know this is hard, Bro, and I’m sorry to be the one to bring this to your attention, but the truth must be faced if we are to get the out-of-control government back under the control of its founding legal charter. Remember when you see this clip (only four minutes) that the FBI shut them down as quickly as they could, and the clips were not seen again for quite some time, until someone – a Patrot – leaked them to the public.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9ifndJ2lQY

      Please know that I am not deriding you in any way. Most Americans react the same way you have reacted here the first time they are brought to the awareness that “for the greater good of the many” our government will literally murder Americans. It’s that bad, and I would submit that you yourself already know that the government is outside its legal bounds, because if you did not already know something was wrong you would not be reading at Oath Keepers. I will close this note by saying to you that Oath Keepers has many police officers and Sheriffs and active duty members, as well as Veterans, who do know that it’s as bad as I’m showing you. This is not the time to run from the truth, but to ask the hard questions in your heart, beginning with this one — “If it’s bad enough that I sense something is going wrong in America, how bad is it really?”

      Keep the faith, Bro. Run away if you must, but we’ll keep the door open for you once this has had time to settle and you’ve done a bit more discovery on your own. And just remember – the Federal government lied through its teeth about Waco, and has been caught in their horrible lies, so what makes us think they would not lie about Oklahoma City? This film below is introduced by a former FBI agent. It features the local Sheriff at Waco, Congressional hearings on Waco, and the FBI’s own FLIR footage of agents on the ground shooting the church members who tried to run out of the burning church. This damned government lies to us on a regular basis. That sort of thing is what is behind the symptoms you’ve already noticed, the symptoms which caused you to think that maybe Veterans would “stand up when needed“. Well, I myself am an honorably discharged US Marine and Vetern of the Viet Nam war who found out the hard way that this damned-by-God government will lie through its teeth. I’m standing by promoting the bitter truth about the depths of depravity which in recent decades has characterized the federal government. Watch this and weep, Brother, and resolve to accept evidence which is irrefutable even if it is more horrible than one can imagine. Thank you, and blessings to you.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr9pQ1pIbiU

      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

      Reply this comment
    • Sun Tzu 14 February, 2016, 10:17

      11Bravo……this 0311 says if you are relying on the “general population” you are truly screwed. Is General Partin’s report a bit too technical for you? Is there something in his resume (his Christian faith, perhaps) that puts you off and focuses your anger on a decorated veteran who was being ‘handled’ by those you obviously support? My analysis of your word choice, “I am so out….” indicates that perhaps you watch too much daytime TV.. not that night TV is any better. Glad you took a pass on OK, we have enough posers and kookoonuts as it is.

      Reply this comment
      • 11bCib 19 February, 2016, 17:43

        Sun Tzu, thank you for repeating what I just said. I believe that Timothy McVeigh did it with the help of others in the white identity movement. Now, besides that, what are you talking about? I’m a Christian, why would I have an issue with him sharing my religion. As a decorated combat vet myself, not sure what you are talking about there…way left field. Daytime tv? Huh? Analysis of word choice? Are you for real? I am out, like over and out…sorry if I lost you there in your “analysis “of Days of our Lives. I’ve never even heard the term kookoonuts, like you made cuckoo and nuts one word. Listen, I will try address what you are saying when you can say it in a clear, concise, non-rambling way. I am here to help.

        To be clear, if not wanting to be part of this outfit, and after hearing the ideas on here would sign up to fight the kind of opinions expressed makes me a poser or a “insert another made up word” then cool. I did the research, many times, I do not believe the arguments with Oklahoma as a conspiracy make the slightest since, and astronomical odds it could be kept under wraps with that kind of coordination and trackable events does not make sense to me. I don’t judge your beliefs, I just strongly disagree. I’ve also studied the behavior that creates a group mentality that results in this kind of blind belief in things that don’t add up. That is why I am advising that I was thinking about joining due to the more promoted beliefs, but got a bit deeper and am going to bail. I felt this was good feedback for an organization that could identify issues that detract people like me and keep it under consideration. I have done that, really not much more to say. I have given Eli and the membership the feedback, I will not be interested in supporting this group. If you want to make up an image of who I am that is pure fantasy, to call me “kookoonuts”, have at it. At this point I am not actively working/speaking against this group, but you can probably change my mind to talk to some of my battle buddies on the fence to let them know what they are getting into. You are welcome to continue to try to insult me, but it seems silly for a group that would like more members. See ya, “kookoonuterybutterymadeupitydumbword” guy.

        Reply this comment
        • Sun Tzu 20 February, 2016, 16:35

          You don’t get it do you 11bCib? People can tell a lot about you and how you think by the words you choose. Your words show you are a US Army infantry veteran who has seen combat, is about half my age (65) and has an extremely poor education and/or non-existent reading skills. I hope another OK will flame me if I have written that reply so poorly that it just threw you off. Can’t you see that it was General Partin’s faith I was referring to? You can believe what you want to believe my boy, but the general has an incredible resume and no reason to shade the truth. Physics is what it is.

          I am sorry, I have no time to school you on all the subtleties of thought and language required for you to keep up on this page. You and your ‘buds’ could learn a lot by hanging around this group and others like it. Furthermore you can’t bail on something you are not part of and you are right I did make up that KooKoo word…..there is no way the words I would have chosen to lay on you would have gotten by our gatekeeper Elias.

          By writing posting here we are both submitting ourselves and our ideas for judgement. I stand with what I said, and will say, and will accept the judgement of the OK community. Here is my judgement: You may be the most heroic, bad-ass, grunt since Audie Murphy, but your reading, writing, and comprehension skills need a lot of work.

          This forum is not the rifle range or the ‘sandbox.’ What we are doing here is exchanging information and ideas. “Maggie’s Drawers” is all I see when you cut loose here.

          The only reason I spent my valuable (to me) time responding to your disjointed post is I have a number of fine, highly respected friends, who share your service, MOS, and combat pedigree.

          Reply this comment
          • 11bCib 22 February, 2016, 19:37

            Yes, master of the obvious, I pretty much stated much of that, but way off on the education and whatever babble you were talking about my paying attention to using commas or whatever on a random blog post while I watch some Walking Dead, not worth my full attention like that buddy. Not really planning on proofreading on a days old thread, but feel free to spend your night coming up with your wonderful zingers in such eloquent nonsense. I won’t brag about my test scores in those areas to humiliate you further, but you digress. Again, logic dictates your position and this article are Batcrap crazy. As far as insinuations regarding my religion, using a soldier’s status to try to justify your position, and my daytime viewing preferences, and my education, consider yourself corrected (as you have accepted through silence) and walk away briskly like you did when duty called. Give up on trying to make a coherent argument, it’s not working.

          • 11bCib 22 February, 2016, 19:42

            I could also correct you on the age, but I really like where you are putting me on that (30ish), so I will let you slide out of mercy. You are a freaking Madam Curry over here. You should start an 1-900#

  7. DocPetey 13 February, 2016, 02:00

    I was there.

    I am a (retired) USNR Corpsman and Paramedic with 25 years in the field. I also volunteered in Urban Search and Rescue. I had boots on the ground at OKC that same day.

    Yes, the ATF is guilty of gross malfeasance by storing ordnance in that building. But Timothy Goddamned McVeigh is guilty. And sorry, pal, that wasn’t a “small” truck bomb. He substituted nitromethane for the fuel oil in his ANFO bomb. But I’m not going to waste my time with facts.

    You spend four days with a cadaver dog digging out the bodies of children, seeing firsthand the destruction around you, reminded of other bombing sites you’ve worked and how much alike they are, and then get back to me with your expertise.

    Arm chair quarterbacks.

    Reply this comment
    • Elias Alias Author 13 February, 2016, 10:14

      Hey Doc,
      Thank you for your good work on April 19, 1995 in Oklahoma City in the wake of the bombing. And thank you for your service in the USN. I have never worked a bombing scene such as existed at the Murrah building, but I have witnessed first hand the bombing scenes from a previous era – young girls burned to the bone by white phosphorous bombs, excruciating death of innocent children, mothers and fathers.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER5rztRzOaM

      I do understand the horror of bombs, from first-hand experience. My first half of my tour over there was with MASS-3 (Marine Air Support Squadron – Third Marine Air Wing).. We did field operations directing Skyhawk and Phantom jets doing bombing runs and strikes to stop Communism “over there” so we would not have to fight Communism “over here” on U.S. soil, recall. A touch of irony for readers old enough to remember the government’s lies about the death and destruction we rained down on a small tropical primitive paradise country struggling for its national sovereignty is now available, and offer it simply to make my point that the government lies —

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo

      I mention that to illustrate the fact that our government lies to us. I mention that because our government lied to us about the Oklahoma City bombing, and they’ve been caught in their lies about that. Here are previous examples that reveal the tendency of our government to deceive We The People –

      Remember President Eisenhower lying through his teeth about the Gary Powers U-2 shootdown over Russia? Russia let him lie for several days before they produced the pilot of the CIA U-2 plane Russia had shot down over their own country. Ike got egg on his face big time, and it’s part of our history.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB9ArG-IWsE

      Then came the Bay of Pigs, in which Kennedy got caught lying through his teeth when CIA failed to provide him “plausible deniability”. I’m sure you remember that one.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egiGD39aplk

      Then came the Gulf of Tonkin incident in which our beloved government lied to us once again in order to justify in the public mind sending ground troops into Viet Nam.
      http://www.legion.org/magazine/213998/mysteries-tonkin-gulf

      Recall Watergate?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal

      And how about the Iran-Contra-Mena scandal?
      http://www.nytimes.com/1987/12/04/world/arms-to-iran-weren-t-for-hostages-reagan-says.html

      Or how about the BCCI scandal in which CIA got caught once again dealing drugs and illegal arms shipments and then laundering the money? More government lying.
      http://fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/

      And let’s never forget Waco…
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr9pQ1pIbiU

      Those are but a few of the government’s lies. So let me ask you — do you really think we can believe anything the government says about the Oklahoma City bombing, especially in light of General Partin’s report and Representative Charles Key’s reports?

      Now let me clarify something for you please. In my post above I said the following, word for word –

      >>”For the record, no one is saying McVeigh did not park that truck bomb out front – I am saying that in *addition* to that weak fertilizer bomb in the truck the ATF had stashed heavy ordnance inside that building long before McVeigh arrived on the scene. The building was blown “out”. Period. McVeigh was a useful and willing dupe being handled by the FBI. (Think – John Doe II)”

      That is what I said. I never said McVeigh did not park a truck bomb in front of the federal building in OK City – I am saying that McVeigh did not know about the other bombs inside the building. McVeigh certainly intended to blow the building up and kill numbers of innocent people including children. He was “willing” to do that, and did his part in the plot. He was taken out of this world so he cannot tell us more, such as his query about who removed the license plate from his getaway car while he was parking that truck. I must ask you — if you were planning to blow up a building with a truck bomb and had taken the trouble to park your get away car some blocks away from where you would park the bomb, would you park a get away car with no license plate on it? Or, rather, would/could have John Doe II done that after you parked your get away car, while you were going to get the truck?

      Think, man, think! Yes, the horrors are real, and yes, it breaks our hearts to learn after trusting our government that we’ve been lied to mercilessly. And now the government wants to create a new enemy class in its fabricated “War on Terrorism”, and that new enemy class is comprised of patriots who dare question anything the government says. I was at Bundy Ranch on April 19, 2014, giving the Oath ceremony on Oath Keepers’ fifth anniversary. According to the story above, I am now to be considered as an “anti-government extremist”. Do you really want to believe that lie too? Can’t you see how things work as our dearly beloved government manipulates the public perception? Do you not believe that government is keenly involved in forming the perception of the group mind of America? Just think about it please.

      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

      Reply this comment
    • D. Bertrand 13 February, 2016, 10:21

      McVeigh did NOT act on his own and he thought the children would be gone, as were all the ATF agents that day. Therefore, the blame should be on those that planned that False Flag attack. McVeigh was just a patsy, just as those two Russian kids at the Boston Massacre….with clear video showing the exploded black backpack being (1st) carried by Black Water contractors and (2) dropped next to the building by a Black Water contractor.

      Then of course, when those pictures were readily available and had gone viral, the police chief comes-out and says, “we only want the public to focus on the approved videos/pics that WE provide.”

      And by coincidence….a “Bomb Drill Exercise” at the same location area of the marathon was in progress. “Nothing to see here people, just move along !”

      Bill Clinton needed a diversion from his escapades in the W.H. and he (and janet Reno) are responsible for the murder of all those children.

      There are confirmed/known 58 False Flag attacks over the century and OKC was one of them.

      Reply this comment
    • DKJ 21 February, 2016, 22:38

      I also commend you DocPetey. Thank you for your sacrifice working at the bombing site. I also had 2 family members that were firefighters looking for their cousin and my best friends son, who was National Guard that was there when they took my brother’s body out. He cannot even speak of those days he went through. It’s always so great for us to see the rescue workers at each anniversary to give them a hug. As a family member who lost a loved one, we formed a group of our own to prove our own beliefs.Not days but years. We had black, limo tint windowed SUV’s come down rural country roads. We were disassembling our computers at night from the things we were able to acquire …legally filed documents, etc.. Barbara Walters considered having us on her nightly show but later it was dropped. We know a lot but no one would listen or be permitted into the trials. Witnesses of those who saw McVeigh in the building, rode in the elevator with him as he presented himself as a maintenance personnel, family members whose homes burned, some moved after being threatened, those who saw the man (John Doe #2) with McVeigh before and after the explosion. I could go on but I won’t waste anyone’s time. After over 20 years, we still believe in the facts we found. Trentadue has been a huge help in the past few years. I know within myself what happened. The expertise comes with years of hard, detailed, dedicated work of many to acquire the truth. This I have.

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  8. R.E.Massey 13 February, 2016, 14:00

    “Arm chair quarterbacks.” DocPetey
    13 February, 2016, 02:00

    Naw DocPetey, I would say salt of the earth realists who insist that the wool is being pulled over the eyes of good men and women like yourself by a captured through a silent coop government that will in the end be coming for everyone. Even the good men and women like yourself.

    Oh and 11bCib, do what your conscience tells you to do, the is no animosity toward you and like Elias stated the door will always be open to you when you shake off the scientific weapon that you have been hit by. As an 11Bravo CIB recipient brother, like many of us you most likely already feel that the blood, sweat and yes tears that we gave for an unconstitutional and thus illegal war was due to a lie made by the captured lawless government that we had then. So use that as your starting point when you begin your study. Don’t think for a minute that as a veteran of a foreign war that you will not be labeled as a domestic terrorist because you already have been. So you may as well advance toward the enemy to close with and destroy him peacefully if we can instead of popping smoke to wait for the stack up on your doorstep to take you away.

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  9. DocPetey 14 February, 2016, 05:08

    Elias

    Thank you for your your reasoned response, and I apologize if I seemed short-tempered – this is a very personal subject with me, and I tend to be prickly about it. That said, I want to get one thing out of the way – you said “Think, man, think!” For the record, I am a woman. But I understand the confusion, considering my screen name and the way I tend to speak. And I want it known that I do not have an agenda. I approach each individual incident as it is presented to me as a unique and separate subject, to be thoroughly scrutinized for fact, substance and veracity. I do not throw in my two cents on something unless I am confident in my knowledge of it. I am also, contrary to first impressions, quite aware of our government’s unconstitutional shenanigans, and am in no way afraid to express my disgust and/or disagreement with many of their policies and actions. I’m just as outraged as you are that people like you, and me (because I volunteer teach advanced first aid/trauma life support/tactical medicine/care under fire to private citizens, many of them “preppers”), and my husband (because he spent 32 years as a Team guy in Special Forces, first as an 18B, then an 18F) have been branded as potential threats because of our beliefs, philosophies, skill sets…and so on. I’m no namby-pamby, toe-the-official-line sheep partaking of the free purple kool-aid being offered us by our fearless leaders. I’m a woman who swore to uphold the constitution of this great nation, to defend it from all enemies both foreign and domestic, who believes it is my patriotic duty to question EVERYTHING my government does, and to raise a ruckus when they step outta line.

    That said…Allow me to address some of your responses. You mentioned the U-2 incident, the Bay of Pigs invasion, the Gulf of Tonkin, Watergate, etc. The reason we know about the real story behind these incidents is because our elected officials are 1. grossly arrogant in their assumption that we, the People, are too stupid and naive to see through their paper-thin cover stories and 2. they couldn’t conspire their way out of a paper bag.

    When people accuse our government of engaging in cover-ups and conspiracy, they assume that those idiots are actually able to pull off a conspiracy and keep it quiet. For God’s sake, they simply are not that smart; that, and the President can’t take a healthy shiat without someone leaking it to the Washington Post. I am more insulted by the fact that our government thinks that we will actually believe the crap they feed us than the fact that they commit criminally stupid and constitutionally illegal acts on a regular basis.

    Now, back to the Oklahoma City bombing…

    I am very familiar with ANFO bombs. For three years of my career, I was an MSHA-certified Mine Safety and Health officer. The mining engineers used ANFO (Ammonium Nitrate [a fertilizer] Fuel Oil [typically kerosene]) on a daily basis, and I was responsible for maintaining site safety. So I am quite familiar with its destructive capabilities. As for the bomb that McVeigh built, he used a significant amount of Ammonium Nitrate, but substituted Nitromethane (commonly used as jet and racing fuel) for the fuel oil, which increased his bomb’s destructive capability exponentially. Please, trust me when I say that from my own observation of the scene, I am confident when say McVeigh’s bomb was quite substantial and highly destructive. The reason there was damage that was obviously caused by both external and internal explosive force was because of McVeigh’s truck bomb outside the building, and the improperly stored ordnance inside the building that ignited because of the truck bomb. That’s why regional earthquake monitoring stations recorded two separate concussive waves occurring within seconds of one another. However, to say that McVeigh’s bomb was “small” is incorrect. It was quite powerful; I stood in the bomb crater it left, and, as I mentioned before, having spent a great deal of time around ANFO, I knew the one McVeigh built was substantial, not just because of the amount of Ammonium Nitrate used in conjunction with the nitromethane, but because the manner in which the components were stored, and even the positioning of the barrels inside the truck that contained those components, ensured that the resulting explosion would cause significant structural damage to the Murrah building as well as considerable loss of life.

    Now, for a few interesting facts: When the search was over, and all bodies and parts of bodies recovered, there was one section of male thigh that was NEVER identified, even with DNA, and did not belong to any of the known victims found in the building. The consensus among those of us who were there is that it probably belonged to McVeigh’s partner. Yes, there was second person with him that day. Too many reliable sources – including CCTV footage – confirm this.

    On the day of the bombing, virtually ALL of the staff of the ATF were not at work that day; I know this, because I witnessed a conversation (very heated, just shy of a knock-down, drag-out fight) between a federal employee and an ATF agent about why their staff just happened to be absent that day. A lot people were understandably pissed off about it, and were not shy about calling out the ATF for not warning anyone else of the possible attack on the Murrah building that day. This goes back to my earlier assertion that the ATF, if anything else, was guilty of gross malfeasance in their handling of the OKC bombing.

    Now, with all that said and done, ultimately, Timothy McVeigh was responsible for the deaths of 169 people. Regardless of who might have “handled” him, or the involvement of others, he still bought the components, built the bomb, rented the Ryder truck, drove to Oklahoma City, parked it in front of the federal building, lit the fuse, and committed mass murder. No one put a gun to his head and forced him to do it. He was not a patsy. He was, like his kissing cousin David Koresh, a self-fellating, egomaniacal malignant narcissist in search of martyrdom for the sole and selfish reason of ensuring a place for himself in history. I cannot help but think the reason his getaway car didn’t have a license plate is because he WANTED to be caught. Can’t revel in the glory of your actions when no one knows it was you, right? Anyway…the only difference between those two was that McVeigh was a baby-killing monster, and Koresh was a baby-raping degenerate. Sometimes, in our quest to prove governmental malfeasance, we forget to assign blame to the sonsofbitches who committed the horrific crimes at the root of whatever incident we’re belly-aching about at the moment.

    Our society is sorely lacking the ability to take (or assign) personal responsibility for our/their actions; this deficiency is second only to the widespread absence of common sense, something so rare now that it’s practically a superpower. But I digress…My point is, no matter how deep the government’s sticky fingers are in many of these incidents, their success is still dependent on some asshole engaging in violent and criminal behavior, usually against a bunch of innocent bystanders. Sometimes in our outrage we forget all about the casualties.

    Now, I must say something to D. Bertrand. You said: “he (McVeigh) thought the children would be gone…Therefore, the blame should be placed on those that planned that false flag attack”. That is utter bullshit. McVeigh conducted very thorough recon of the Murrah building on several different occasions prior the bombing; he knew about the daycare, its location (second floor, facing the street) and that his truck bomb would probably kill most of the children in attendance. He even stated after (in an in-depth interview) that he knew about the daycare, and referred to those murdered children as “collateral damage.” If I could have, I would have killed him myself. I will never forget finding a little pink tennis shoe in the debris, with a tiny foot inside it, hoping to God that she went quick. I am heartily sick of people who attempt to downplay or excuse what McVeigh did. Nineteen of the dead were children; three were pregnant women. Many were just regular people who happened to be in the building that day. Regardless of WHY he did it, or who else might have had a hand in it, it was that bastard McVeigh who did it. He killed those babies, and I hope to God he’s burning in Hell for it.

    FYI, McVeigh also said:

    “I didn’t define the rules of engagement in this conflict; the rules, if not written down, are defined by the aggressor. It (the bombing) was brutal, no holds barred. Women and children were killed at Waco and Ruby Ridge. You put back in their (the government’s) faces exactly what they’re giving out.” My God…it would take me days to point out everything that is so incredibly wrong with that statement. It wasn’t a justification, an explanation, a declaration; it was McVeigh admitting that he (and his actions) were no better than those he supposedly objected to. No one who is outraged by the death of innocents, especially children, would express that outrage by killing other children. He was not a patsy, nor a hero, certainly not the misunderstood and maligned patriot that many people have made him out to be. He was a cold-blooded murderer who did it because he wanted to, to satisfy his ego, his need for attention and adoration, and anyone who admires him or attempts to minimize or apologize for his actions is a pathetic, weak-minded, selfish POS, and it takes every bit of self-control I have when confronted with these types not to just choke the living crap out of them.

    I stand by my statements and make no apologies for them. And, as I said before, I’m no blinder-wearing conformist, not by a long shot (except if it’s me making that long shot with my favorite rifle, a Savage 110BA .338 lapua that I’ve affectionately nick-named “Babycakes. Heh!)

    Like you said, Elias, we all need to THINK. And question. Everything.

    Thank you for your consideration. Take care and be safe.

    Doc Petey

    Reply this comment
    • Elias Alias Author 14 February, 2016, 08:24

      Doc Petey,
      I really want to thank you for a lucid and well-composed letter, and also thank you for being honest as well as informative. Your intelligence factor comes shining through your writing, and so does your heart. I will be happy to talk with you any time. I will also be willing to listen objectively to your perspective and your view. There has been quite a bit of intelligent discourse cross my screen as I monitor comments and read articles in the years since Oath Keepers launched this site, and I am pleased to tell you that your letter (I will not degrade it by calling it a “comment”) is an outstanding testament of mental clarity inmixed with passion from the heart.

      But I do have this one lament – I want to write my response to you but must put off doing it at this moment. I really hate that, because I’d like to honor your candidness with a prompt reply at the least. However, it’s after 7:00 a.m. here and I’ve been up writing and reading all night, about an eleven hour sojourn. My eyes are about crossed and my remaining three brain cells are too sluggish to be held accountable until I get some shut-eye. Please know that I will respond tonight. (Sunday night) And please know that I truly appreciate your letter. Your ability to coherently and colorfully convey your meaning is appreciated. I can communicate with you, and you with me, and I think it will be good for readers here, so I’m looking forward to composing my reply for you.

      I will reply to your other post quickly and then take my leave until tonight.
      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

      Reply this comment
  10. DocPetey 14 February, 2016, 05:22

    Oh, and Elias…one more thing. Sorry I forgot to say this, but thank you for your service. As a Corpsman, I have a definite fondness for Marines; they hold a special place in my heart. Like the (unofficial) motto of the Navy Corpsman says: “To Hell And Back For A Wounded Marine”.

    Semper Fi, Brother.

    Reply this comment
    • Elias Alias Author 14 February, 2016, 08:33

      Heh! Your brothers in the Navy floated my young ass across the pond at 8 knots — took sixty-three days to get my outfit over there; and after getting on the ground there I chummed a bit with the SeaBees and played too much poker with our outfit’s Corpsman, lol. And since the USN wrote my paychecks, I’m bound to return your greeting in like manner. Thank you and your husband both for your service, and for continuing to serve even to this day. Blessings to both of you. The two of you bolster my pride in being an American. You’ve both got my Salute!

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    • Sun Tzu 14 February, 2016, 11:16

      DOC your fondness is appreciated by this has been 0311. Your response was obviously heart-felt, and extremely well written. I take you at your word that you were in OKC. Were you at Waco too? The Texas Rangers and others on the scene there dismissed the “baby raping” rap as complete Bravo Sierra. People with a slightly different perspective could use your treatise as an indictment of your husbands JSOC brothers and drone ‘pilots’ in Nevada, Texas, and elsewhere. Baby killing is our national sport- just as evil foreign or domestic.

      Reply this comment
      • DocPetey 14 February, 2016, 13:45

        Sun Tzu

        I was not at Waco. But I did watch the video where David Koresh discussed his spiritual marriages to several underage girls, some as young as 12, and justified it by saying that God told him to. I also watched the taped depositions of several of the girls Koresh was “married” to who had left the compound just prior to the events of April 19. These little girls, one as young as ten (Keri Jewell) related in heartbreaking detail their rapes, committed by Koresh under the guise of religious doctrine. Even worse, most of them were proud of having being chosen by Koresh, felt that it was an honor to be the spiritual wife of the the self-proclaimed son of God. After the ninth deposition, I couldn’t watch any more.

        The reason Koresh was never charged or prosecuted for statutory rape was because at the time, in the state of Texas, the age of consent was 13, and authorities knew there was no way any of the victims would cooperate in an investigation.

        Sadly, of everything he was accused of (stockpiling “illegal” weapons, manufacturing illicit drugs, etc), the only accusation that turned out to be true was his perverted preference for little girls. He was a baby-raping deviant, period. He was also a heretic and a blasphemer (claiming, alternately, to be the Son of God and the reincarnation of King David). The rest of the members of his church I believe were good and decent people who had been misled by a charismatic egomaniac who cared only about himself. He’s right up there with Jim Jones.

        As for my husband…tread carefully, my friend. I will not tolerate baseless accusations made against him or any of his Team. They are good, decent, brave, heroic, patriotic men who have sacrificed more than you could ever know. To a man, they have paid a heavy price for their service.

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        • Sun Tzu 14 February, 2016, 15:27

          DOC

          I am around a number of folks who shoot rifles of the type and quality of the one you alluded to in an earlier post to Elias. I would no doubt come to respect you and your man should I meet you in person. As far as treading lightly goes, facts are facts. In May I will be attending a reunion of my brothers in honor of the 800 who were killed in the prime of life in a place they need not have been had it not been for the endless lies and corruption of the government that sent them. Nearly all of them were good, decent, patriotic men who indeed paid a heavy price for their service. I’ll wager the majority of them, at least the ones I talk to, were misled by charismatic egomaniacs of the stripe who we now see on stage at the quadrennial clown show which will produce our new Supreme Leader.

          Semper Fi

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          • DocPetey 14 February, 2016, 18:10

            Sun…

            Oh dear. I sincerely hope you did not take my statement as a threat to you. I am no keyboard commando flinging threats of violence against others from the anonymous safety of my computer like some petulant schoolyard bully. The reason I mentioned my BFBBS (Big Frigging Boom Boom Stick) in my letter to Elias was for the purpose of levity (making fun of myself for naming it “Babycakes”), not intimidation.

            As for my comment “…tread carefully…” that was also not a threat. I type like a speak, sort of a stream-of-consciousness thing. In retrospect, I probably could have chosen my words more carefully. As is painfully obvious from my first post, I can be a bit prickly. My husband often points out that there are times I definitely allow my jaybird mouth to write checks my chickadee ass can’t cash. *sigh*

            That said, I may respectfully disagree with you, but it does not mean I do not respect you and your opinion. Threats and insults in lieu of reasonable discourse is the bailiwick of cowards and those too lazy or intellectually challenged to explain or defend their position.

            Doc

  11. Greg K 14 February, 2016, 11:10

    I vaguely remember in Gulf 1, that someone lied about “babies being taken from incubators” to get the party started. Then in Gulf 2, it was “WMD.” They lie all the time!

    Hey Elias, I didn’t notice that you had discussed “Northwoods” before I posted it on your thread. Will do better next time! :))

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  12. Sun Tzu 14 February, 2016, 22:50

    DOC
    Thanks for the come back …..I suspect, based on the little I know about your family, that you are a class act. My wife reminds me daily that I can be a bit ‘prickly’ myself. I can appreciate a passionate individual as I am one. In order to avoid putting my foot in my mouth I’ll just say I am glad you both are on our side as I have enough extremely capable enemies.

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  13. StalkedMercilessly 15 February, 2016, 18:02

    Just curious, did my comment get tossed by someone at this site? Perhaps it never made it.

    Given my comment specifically addressed a current domestic counterintelligence program targeting innocent Americans, it was relevant to this article and discussion.

    It shouldn’t be that hard to believe that domestic counterintelligence techniques are currently being used against a handful of ‘selected’ Americans to help hone these techniques, to quell dissent and to ultimately control the population.

    Reply this comment
    • Elias Alias Author 15 February, 2016, 18:27

      SM,
      I have held back on posting your previous comment while trying to reach a decision as to whether or not I should post it at this website. I do partially agree with your assessment of its content, that it should be posted here, but at the same time, there are undertones in your post which may not be fit for our readership. Please try to understand that Oath Keepers is deeply involved in countering “MindWar” and we must not undermine our mission by posting bizarre leaps to unfounded conclusions.
      When I pulled your comment aside for consideration, I intended to email you and ask you to call me so I can hear the qualities in your voice. You were not clear, to my understanding, about “why” you are being stalked, and your perception that even your neighbors are stalking you on behalf of some secret government operation is just a bit much to ask our readers to swallow. Credibility is important to truthful analysis, and perception of the bizarre does not readily lend itself to credibility.
      I will email you right now and give you my email address. Please reply to my email with your phone number and a time I may be invited to call you.
      Thank you,
      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

      Reply this comment
  14. R.E.Massey 22 February, 2016, 12:09

    Darn it Elias, you are without a doubt a scholar and a gentleman!

    To you DocPetey, I salute, commend and revel in the knowledge that America has people like you two supporting and defending our constitution and our Republic.

    I hold you and your warrior husband with the deepest respect and reverence. Every time I hear or read the prose of people like yourself my spirits are lifted and my determination redoubles for the tasks at hand to uphold and protect our constitution even against what seems like unbeatable odds. Thank you for your service both past and in the future.

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