Tearing Down Perceived Blue Wall of Silence will Take Dedicated Resources

Tearing Down Perceived Blue Wall of Silence will Take Dedicated Resources

“I read your post on War on Guns, and I think this is a very good example of a BAD cop that we should post, and use it as a teaching moment on how we MUST call out the bad ones and when one is found out, we should be willing to say so, and support the department’s actions in getting rid of him.” Stewart Rhodes told me in an email. “Now if we can just get the ‘good’ cops to do that on their own, without a smoking gun in the hands of a mere plebe to force them to. I’ll bet this guy was already a known racist pig in his department. But they didn’t do jack till he was caught red-handed online being a dumb ass as well as a psycho.”

My post was in reference to a news story about a Kansas cop fired for sending a black woman a threatening Facebook message about her five-year-old daughter. And while shocking in its own right, it’s nothing compared to some of the stories about police corruption and brutality involving officers who have been on the force for years, many rising through the ranks to positions of  power and influence.

Those in turn have elicited reader comments condemning officers who must have known but kept silent, as being, if nor equally guilty, at least accessories. In general, I agree with that.

The thing is, it’s easy for me to weigh in on this. I don’t have to live with the risks and consequences of actions I expect others to take. Those are many, and they come from several sources.

I saw that happening with ATF retaliation against Fast and Furious whistleblowers. The since-disgraced U.S. attorney for Phoenix tried to discredit agent John Dodson — and Congress actually had to issue warnings against retaliation (which were still tested). The ATF Chief Counsel and Acting Director were trying to identify the source who first revealed a “gunwalking” connection on the CleanUp ATF whistleblower website so they could invoke standards violation sanctions against him. Whistleblower Vince Cefalu, who insisted wiretap laws be followed, was first sidelined in a meaningless job and then illegally fired. And a federal judge accused ATF and DOJ attorneys of committing “fraud on the court” for threatening career retaliation against a witness in the Jay Dobyns case.

Squelching coming forward against corruption has once more captured headlines in the FBI’s investigation of Hillary Clinton. Not only has a gag order been imposed, agents are subject to “lie detector” testing, which, if AG Lynch’s telling Congress to pound sand 74 times is any indication, is being directed, monitored and controlled from the very top.

Not all departments have Internal Affairs investigators, and of those that do, not all are truly free to act independently. Then there are police unions, which are advocates for officers accused of wrongdoing. And there are fellow officers who may have an interest in supporting the system just the way it is, and who may have a vested interest in making life hard on “snitches.”

Without even needing to get into Serpico situations, who wants to be out on the street without complete confidence partners and colleagues are watching their backs? And who has the resources to sustain being terminated, or for prolonged court actions?

So what is this, excuse-making for cops who see bad things going on and keep their mouths shut out of pure self-preservation and interest?  Maybe, at least a bit. But that’s only in the absence of a reliable support network for peace officers who want to come forward, but who may naturally hesitate at the thought of being alone against the world. There need to be resources to help overcome balking at doing the right thing, and not just to protect the cop, but to expose injustices and bring wrong-doers to accountability.

A cursory search doesn’t reveal a lot in terms of resources – there are some articles, a link to a Facebook page, some links and resources, and even a National Whistleblower Center that looks more like a general fraud clearinghouse, but nothing really in the way of an organization dedicated exclusively to actually supporting police whistleblowers. If anyone knows of one, please educate us all in comments.

In the absence of that, this is the point where I get to toss the problem back to Stewart and to the membership: Noting this is essentially a volunteer organization with competing priorities for precious resources, what can and should Oath Keepers’ role in this be, and what specific measures could be taken now to encourage and protect those struggling with the decision to break through the so-called wall?

—–

Stewart asked veteran police officers and tactical trainers Greg McWhirter (former Indianapolis cop and current Montana corrections) and John Karriman (Missouri Police Academy Defensive Tactics instructor) for their experience-based perspectives on this.

Greg McWhirter:

I have over 12 years of law enforcement experience in two states. I’ve worked in a jail, fugitive warrants, gangs, SWAT and now Probation and Parole. I was a union rep for my department in Indiana, and a FTO for 7 years.

I have seen some of those things mentioned in this article. Sadly, I have seen whistleblower cops shunned and harassed by their agency after blowing the whistle outside their chain of command. The idea of a blue wall of silence is myth. While there are agencies that promulgate the concept, the vast majority of officers don’t conduct themselves in that manner. Its much more complex than that, and I’ll explain.

There are two things that seemingly create this idea of the “blue wall of silence.” Firstly, there are agencies that have had a history of coming down on whistleblowers, intentionally and unintentionally. For example officer, Kyle Pirog, a 16-year veteran at the Bedminster Township Police Department. Pirog accused  Officer John Dapkins of targeting minorities at traffic stops, accusations that were echoed by other officers, according to court documents. He also maintained that Dapkins had committed perjury to obtain a search warrant from a judge, in addition to lying in a police report. After he brought his concerns to the attention of superiors and they were not addressed, the suit says that Pirog took his concerns to the Somerset County Prosecutor’s Office. Upon hearing this, Pirog’s superiors suspended him for three months without pay, demoted him and threatened him with termination. The suit is still pending.

https://www.rt.com/usa/323147-whistleblower-cop-retaliation-suit/

The second issue, and the one I think is most damaging, is the extent agencies will go to rehabilitate, retrain, and retain bad cops. Frequently you will find that agencies will transfer or retrain officers after they have committed small violations. This is frequently done in an effort to retain an officer who just needs retraining , or to keep an officer for some other less-noble reason. I have personally seen officers who have been retained or even promoted after numerous complaints from fellow officers for political reasons, because that officer or his family is politically connected. In the first instance you will see agencies reprimand an officer, send him to remedial training and try to find some way to retain that officer. In the second instance you will find these officers will act recklessly, and illegally because they feel untouchable, because they are politically connected. They will commit some kind of policy violation and then, due to political connections, the will not be disciplined or fired, but will be transferred. The reason the agencies brass even knows about that problem officer is because his co-workers have complained or because issues are discovered during an FTO period.

As an FTO you have a responsibility to further the training of your trainee, identify areas of strength and weakness, and most importantly to figure out if a trainee is cut out for the job. I have attended instructor symposiums that are filled with horror stories of new officers who are retained even after their FTO/Instructor, has filed a recommendation that the new officer be let go because he is not meeting the standards. This is an effort by those agencies to maintain manpower and not waste the tens of thousands of dollars spent on training and equipping that new officer. Sometimes, it’s also out of fear of being sued by that officer for wrongful termination.

None of these reasons are good reasons to keep bad cops. However its part of the truth that we face, undermanned and overwhelmed agencies doing what they feel is right to keep manpower up. In some states being fired from an agency is almost the equivalent of a dishonorable discharge. Other states a bad officer may maintain his police certification and will quietly move to another department. Hopefully in the future we will see some changes in the situations I have discussed. We are seeing more and more localities passing ethics rules that prevent the political retention.

Most importantly is we LEO’s as a community must support our whistleblower cops. The only way we can come closer to our communities, rebuild our lost trust, and show the public that we don’t condone bad cops, is to get out in force and show support for our whistleblower officers. As said in the Declaration of Independence “we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.” We must show support for our officers, who in good faith blow the whistle on those who would dishonor our profession.

John Karriman:

I would like to say the majority of LE out there do a great job, but it just aint so. I’ve only been around it for forty years, so I might be full of shit. I started studying the criminal justice system back in ’76. My age put me between wars (following a rather unpopular one) so instead of the military, I went into LE, hitting the street when I was 21. Because of my martial arts background; I got tabbed to teach at the regional academy after my rookie season. I assisted two of my mentors (both Marines) until taking over the program 25 years ago. Those contacts opened doors for some interesting travel and training, since one of them retired as a Master Sergeant in CI (tale end of WWII through Vietnam). I found that being part of the Intel community was like being in the mob- you never really get out.

Having been a training officer and DTI since ’81 has been an eye opener. The job attracts bullies, cowards, sloths and dullards at an alarming rate. The vast majority lack the interpersonal skills and servant’s heart the job requires to do right. Forget about athleticism or the bringing of any useful skills to the table. It’s too often a bad fit. When I tell them they are basically paid athletes and modern day knights; you can see the fatties glaze over. I have used one of MS Gordon’s statements- “Son, you must be lost, cuz this aint no pie eating contest.”

The job requires the ability to wear many hats. Most aren’t up to the task. Bad actors surround themselves with more of the same and it’s the good officer that gets run off or quits in disgust. My motto of- Treat ’em like family until you can’t, falls on deaf ears for many of them. Most seem to relish preying on those that are just attempting to get by while they avoid dealing with the real hard-asses. Despite my warnings about falling into the Us vs Them trap; they almost seem to take a perverse pleasure in costing their fellow travelers time or money. As far as targeting minorities, Cracker please. They avoid having to deal with minorities like the plague because of fears of non-compliance or their special…afrocentricities (yeah, I made it up). They are code named- Democrats (when we’re using codes) Of course, then there’s language barriers and the lack of ID with our undocumented “visitors” or preDemocrats (preedeez) as some of them are known.

When I see military men (and women) come through the academy after a tour or two under their belts; I usually move them into leadership positions. When the cadets have been allowed to pick their class leader; they invariably will pass over the quarter of the class with military experience. I correct that mistake, but it’s always the same; pass over the military people and then complain about them when they have to bring their problems to them first before it gets to me. Crybabies. They buck chain of command because they were told by momma how special they are.

The military folks have the mental and physical discipline the job deserves, but are invariably bad-mouthed by their soft counterparts (while still at the academy and later on the street). They have been exposed to a true command structure and are mission oriented, but instead of respect and a desire to learn from them; there is contempt and sometimes sabotage in the promotion game. It’s jealousy, purely and simply. Their soft counterparts know they couldn’t have made it in military life. It is one small sticking point with me, having taken the LE/Intel route and not having spent some time in the Suq. Oh, I’ve seen the elephant, but I feel like I missed out. Working around military and Intel personnel isn’t the same as having gotten to experience the ups and downs of military life.

Comment by Stewart Rhodes:

I thank all three gentlemen for their thoughts on this.

I agree with David that we need to do more to support the good cops who do call out the bad ones, and we will put some concrete effort into sorting out what that will look like (I will enlist our good cops, like Greg McWhirter and John Karriman in that effort).  However, I am not willing to give any cop any kind of a pass or leeway in turning a blind eye to violations of peoples rights no matter what the consequences to his career.   Cops need to man up and follow the lead of Frank Serpico and blow the whistle or step in and stop the abuse directly, even if it puts their career in danger (or, as in Serpico’s case, their lives).  They have a duty to do so under their oath.  And they cannot say “hey, when you guys can guarantee I will not lose my job, or can provide me some kind of financial backup, then I’ll be happy to blow the whistle, but until then, I’ll do what I have to do to keep my job.”  Sorry, that just wasn’t their oath.  It wasn’t “I swear to support and defend the Constitution … unless it may cost me my job!  Then, no way!”  Cops putting their job first, above their oath, and NOT stopping the bad cops from abusing people, is exactly why they are losing the good will of the American people, and an increasing number of Americans see them all as their enemy.

Police should do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, period.  Certainly, we need to keep in mind the facts of human nature, but that only reinforces why the Founders distrusted standing armies – because a professional warrior or guardian class will see itself as separate from, and above the people, and it will be more likely to obey orders that violate the rights of the people because their paycheck depends on it.  That applies to cops as much as to career soldiers.   When a man becomes a cop, his whole identity, his status in the community, his paycheck, and his pension are now tied up with being a cop.  He is now in the club, and you and I non-cops ain’t in it.   That affects their behavior, no matter how good their initial intentions.  So, yes, we can and should try to provide some support to the good ones to help to counter those human nature realities, but we also may just have to conclude that the Founders were right, and there is no such thing as a standing army  (or standing police force) that can be trusted with the people’s rights, and they must instead be replaced by the militia, made up of we the people.

And I think what both Greg and John wrote lends weight to that.  And especially John’s candid, no bull slap in the face of the police industry based on his personal observations over decades.   I trust both men with my life, as men of honor and integrity, and I think the truth is in the middle somewhere, but I think it is also way over toward John’s side of the scale, with him saying, I would like to say the majority of LE out there do a great job, but it just aint so. …The job attracts bullies, cowards, sloths and dullards at an alarming rate.”

I think we need to be willing to face that harsh reality and then deal with it.  We certainly cannot forsake them all, because we know many who are indeed warriors with a servant’s heart.  I have been privileged and honored to know such men and women here in this org.  But we also need to face up to the fact that the good ones are in the minority, and that is precisely why the bad ones have free reign.

But now, with a bloody war on cops raging in earnest, the equation is no longer just “will I lose my job or my pension” but also “will I lose my life.”  We stand opposed to the cop killers, driven by Marxist ideology and racism, who are now on a killing spree, but we must also recognize that police are extremely vulnerable, and their only real security is to take a sincere stand for the Constitution, reign in the bad cops and reform themselves, and respect the rights of people at all times, and then join with us in defending our communities against the terrorists together. But without trying to take shortcuts when it comes to the Constitution in the name of officer safety.  If they do right by their oath, we will back them up physically, and put ourselves in harms way to stand with them.  But if they violate it, then they are on their own. They cannot expect us military veterans and patriotic cop veterans to assist the current serving cops in violating the Constitution.  We cannot do that.  So, let’s hope they realize just how late the hour is, and do the right thing before it is too late. – Stewart Rhodes

 

 

Categories: All, Oath Keepers

About Author

David Codrea

David Codrea blogs at The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance (WarOnGuns.com), and is a field editor/columnist for GUNS Magazine. Named “Journalist of the Year” in 2011 by the Second Amendment Foundation for his groundbreaking work on the “Fast and Furious” ATF “gunwalking” scandal, he is a frequent event speaker and guest on national radio and television programs.

Comments

  1. Longbow 15 July, 2016, 15:35

    Greg McWhirter says, ” …vast majority of officers don’t conduct themselves in that manner.”

    Bullshit! If the “vast majority” were such good guys, there wouldn’t be any bad cops. They would police their own to such an extent that bad cops would find it impossible to find employment, much less hide behind their fellow Gang members.

    John Karriman says, “The job attracts bullies, cowards, sloths and dullards at an alarming rate.”

    Thank you for your honesty. It is high time someone from the inside said so. Until the few, yes I said “FEW” really good guys in Law Imposement get that message, there will be no resolution to the problem. If you are one of the “vast majority”, what problem?

    Reply this comment
  2. Vallihuldun 15 July, 2016, 17:00

    I can understand what John is saying. As I (honorably) left military service, I was invited to enter law enforcement. I declined, because of the current culture within law enforcement. In my mind, a LEO is there to preserve the peace, keep people safe, and negotiate conflicts. We can all think of a LEO who exemplified those ideals if we think about Andy Taylor (Griffith). Unfortunately, the current LEO culture is about protecting your own, issuing citations, and trying to see whose dick is bigger. I thank god for the good officers that we have, who are sticking it out, but there are also so many bad cops out there that I don’t want to be tarred with that same brush.

    Reply this comment
  3. Cal 15 July, 2016, 20:12

    “Sadly, I have seen whistleblower cops shunned and harassed by their agency after blowing the whistle outside their chain of command. ”

    Guess what, that happens to a lot of people who try to stop corruption in whatever job they occupy, particularly governmental positions. They then make a choice, allow the corruption to continue – which in the long run – particularly in governmental jobs – injures our nation, all Americans. Sometimes the corruption of that agency/etc follows that person that stood – particularly if served a long time – in the form of blocking getting a decent job.

    Choices have to be made, and if we do not stand up for what is right, are we not in the wrong country – because taking responsibility is the American way. Some have not worked at a “real” job for years, even a decade or so which makes life for them and their families difficult.

    But the way i see it, the decision to retain your paycheck, etc when you work in a position within our governments shows you just what it takes to buy you into being a traitor. All corruption within our governments hurts our nation, our legitimate government. If you ignore it happening then by that very non action you are assisting it.

    Some choose what is right, and deals with what happens and then continues fighting to stop corruption everywhere, while their family goes through the same problems as they are facing.

    In my opinion, if you (generic “you”) will sell out your nation for a paycheck and comfort, then you are not just a traitor, your NOT an American. So please pick another nation to be a bad cop, bad governmental employee, bad whatever. America needs Americans that have a strong moral backbone, and if you do not have it leave. Our country was born with people who put not only their livelihoods on the line, but their and their families lives. Some lost all, some lost a little, but all paid a price for this nation, do NOT shame yourself and the rest of Americans who do stand in little ways like not allowing or participating or even standing by while corruption happens within their jobs.

    There are people in prison for refusing to unlawfully wear a UN uniform and follow unlawful UN orders when they signed up to be the AMERICAN military. Do not shame them by YOUR actions. (http://www.jefflindsay.com/MichaelNew.shtml and he is not the only one who is in prison for keeping his Oath.)

    In my opinion a lot of what we now face is because people turn away, will not face those choices, will not make the right choice for our nation. If they had been doing that all along, a lot of this would have been stopped. Get your American values straight!

    God Bless All, and Stay Safe!

    Cal
    If there were never intended to be action to defend the Constitution from those who are domestically attempting to destroy its power and authority, why would each Oath require it of those who take the Oaths?

    Chief Tecumseh: “When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home.”

    Reply this comment
  4. Linda 16 July, 2016, 06:58

    Good article and great comments from the two leo-types included!

    And it spells out the exact root of the problem everywhere in all of life. It is not just limited to law enforcement.

    In the private sector, the unions also protect the criminal employees and work to retain the criminals on the job. For example, I know of a cases where union-member-employees have been caught red-handed committing theft (I mean, having truckloads of a company’s property already loaded and more property sitting in the doorway to the docking/garage/warehouse area waiting to be loaded, and the criminals still loading stolen property when they get caught) and the union fights to retain them!

    Why do they fight to retain criminals as employees?

    This is a huge part of an overall problem with people and the unions, no matter what union. Even police unions. Get rid of the unions and see how quickly criminals go away.

    Another commenter said (quote): “…that happens to a lot of people who try to stop corruption in whatever job they occupy…”. Exactly . That tells me the good guys are not in positions of power or if they are, they are cowards.

    The only solution is the good guys must stand up and speak up everywhere, every time and by the 100’s of thousands they must not back down from the criminals and the bullies and the unions and the bad guys. Gals, too.

    It is not going to be easy. Get prepared and just do it!

    Reply this comment
  5. Dr Jorey 16 July, 2016, 07:10

    Having logged over 45 years in this profession as a Chief of Police, police psychologist and Academy Director here and internationally this career doesn’t make anyone corrupt or dirty. They are corrupt and dirty before they enter this profession and we have not done a good job in screening them out. Morality and integrity can be identified and quantified for this job simply by completing a thorough background investigation. You can add to it with personality testing and psychological evaluations. Morality and integrity is on the decline in all professions, few honor their oath of office as evidenced by the testimony of Comey and Lynch. Fewer people are entering the law enforcement career field and we can expect to see a lowering of entry level standards like in the 70’s. On the bright side I have observed situations that were stopped or brought down by one ethical officer standing firm on his oath and taking a stand. I do believe there are thousands of those still wearing Blue that take that stand every day of their career and yet go unnoticed by others.

    Reply this comment
    • Balticcop 21 July, 2016, 02:06

      I really, really question your whole response. So mr Chief of Police. Tell me how you put forth an “open door policy” to report bad cops or did you just accept the one already in place. How many reports (if any because of past whistleblower retaliation) of bad cop activity did you investigate?I think the article is right on target; police, military, government all are extremely retaliatory and examples clearly have damped out any hope of cleaning the place up. For that you can see why LEOs have had a spat of assassinations which is sad because they were probably most good cops.

      Reply this comment
  6. Greg K 16 July, 2016, 09:24

    Consider the hypocritical stance Police Leadership heaps upon our Civil Servants. On the one hand they expect street cops to get between any harm causing incident and the good folk of the US. On the other hand they are telling officers, “We want you to come home to your spouse and children.” Don’t think for a second that’s not an agenda pushed by the insurance actuaries. Add to this all the BS Unconstitutional, point of contact laws heaped upon the citizenry. The Dallas Police chief had it partially correct, “They have to enforce way to many laws, and are in the wrong sort of contact with the public on a regular basis.” In short, they are practicing a profession that demands they accept their possible demise at a moments notice, but are expected to make a snap decision to preserve their lives above all else. Pretty tough deal….

    If I were a sheriff, I would have the department buy dirt bikes. Part of their training would be at the desert or motocross track. It’s interesting how clarity ensues when you live outside the “Edge” and your life depends on a single millisecond decision, several times a session. In fact, when you experience that inevitable crash and burn, time slows down; however over time you learn to manage it better. This may be why we are seeing the occasional “Drop your weapon,” but before even the quickest person could react/process the command, some cops are opening fire. They are in a fight or flee situation, and I’m fairly certain “time slows down for the cop,” but not for the victim…..

    Reply this comment
  7. Curtis 17 July, 2016, 12:05

    “The idea of a blue wall of silence is myth.”

    Then goes on and explains to us the Blue Wall of Silence mechanism.

    Reply this comment
  8. Nick 18 July, 2016, 03:38

    Great read!

    I completely agree with the statements given. LE are held to a higher standard. Corruption in the business world is completely different in the LE world. We expect LE Officers to have that “servant’s heart.” We have to honestly say that Blue Lives matter and Black Lives matter. Say what you want about the Black Lives Matter movement; however, this are citizens you feel a need to protest and lay out grievances to the government. This is a Constitutional right. The LE officers are agents of the government. Of course, anyone who tries to harm a cop should be punished, but this should not throw peaceful citizens who are participating in the BLM as traitors. Both sides need strong and moral leadership. Both sides need to clean up house. Racist and immoral cops need to be reported and kicked out. Violent thugs in the BLM need to be thrown out. But here is the kicker, real change will happen only when these groups do this themselves. Remember, this country was founded on “civil disobedience” and protest.

    Reply this comment
  9. anarchyst 19 July, 2016, 18:19

    I post this, as I want to see every police officer go home alive at the end of his shift. I welcome comments and critique on any of the points that I make…
    Ever notice that police unions are “fraternal”? This should tell you something. The “thin-blue-line” is a gang, little different than street gangs–at least when it comes to “covering-up” their questionable and quite often, illegal and criminal behavior.
    In today’s day and age, “officer safety” trumps civilian safety and de-escalation of force. This, in part, is due to the militarization of the police along with training in Israeli police tactics. This becomes a problem, with the “us vs. them” attitude that is fosters, along with the fact that Israel is a very different place, being on a constant “war footing”, and by necessity, its police tactics are very different.
    There are too many instances of police being “given a pass”, even when incontrovertible video and audio evidence is presented. Grand juries, guided by police-friendly prosecutors, quite often refuse to charge those police officers who abuse their authority.
    Police officers, who want to do the right thing, are quite often marginalized and put into harms way, by their own brethren…When a police officer is beating on someone that is already restrained while yelling, “stop resisting” THAT is but one reason police have a “bad name” in many instances…
    Here are changes that can help reduce the police-induced violence:
    1. Get rid of police unions. Police unions (fraternities) protect the guilty, and are responsible for the massive whitewashing of questionable police behavior that is presently being committed.
    2. Eliminate both “absolute” and “qualified” immunity for all public officials. This includes, prosecutors and judges, police and firefighters, code enforcement and child protective services officials, and others who deal with the citizenry. The threat of being sued personally would encourage them to behave themselves. Require police officers to be “bonded” by an insurance company, with their own funds. No bond= no job.
    3. Any public funds disbursed to citizens as a result of police misconduct should come out of police pension funds–NOT from the taxpayers.
    4. Regular drug-testing of police officers as well as incident-based drug testing should take place whenever an officer is involved in a violent situation with a citizen–no exceptions.
    5. Testing for steroid use should be a part of the drug testing program. You know damn well, many police officers “bulk up” with the “help” of steroids. Steroids also affect users mentally as well, making them more aggressive. The potential for abuse of citizens increases greatly with steroid use.
    6. Internal affairs should only be used for disagreements between individual officers–NOT for investigations involving citizen abuse. State-level investigations should be mandatory for all suspected abuses involving citizens.
    7. Prosecutors should be charged with malfeasance IF any evidence implicating police officer misconduct is not presented to the grand jury.
    8. A national or state-by-state database of abusive individuals who should NEVER be allowed to perform police work should be established–a “blacklist” of abusive (former) police officers.
    9. Most people are unaware that police have special “rules” that prohibit them from being questioned for 48 hours. This allows them to “get their stories straight” and makes it easier to “cover up” bad police behavior. Police must be subject to the same laws as civilians.
    10. All police should be required to wear bodycams and utilize dashcams that cannot be turned off. Any police officers who causes a dash or body cam to be turned off should be summarily fired–no excuses. Today’s body and dash cams are reliable enough to withstand harsh treatment. Body and dashcam footage should be uploaded to a public channel “on the cloud” for public perusal. Body and dashcams protect the police from frivolous claims…they work both ways.
    11. All interrogations must be video and audio recorded. Police should be prohibited from lying or fabricating stories in order to get suspects to confess. False confessions ARE a problem in many departments. Unknown to most people, police can lie with impunity while civilians can be charged with lying to police…fair? I think not…
    12. Any legislation passed that restricts the rights of ordinary citizens, such as firearms magazine capacity limits, types of weapons allowed, or restrictive concealed-carry laws should apply equally to police. No special exemptions to be given to police. Laws must be equally applied.
    Police work is not inherently dangerous…there are many other professions that are much more dangerous.
    A little “Andy Taylor” could go a long way in allaying fears that citizens have of police.
    That being said, I have no problem with police officers who do their job in a fair, conscientious manner…however, it is time to call to task those police officers who only “protect and serve” themselves.
    I realize that most police officers are conscientious and do their jobs well, to the best of their ability. However, it only takes “one bad apple” to spoil the whole bunch, as civilians only see the uniform and not the human being behind it.
    There is absolutely no excuse for the murder of police officers…

    Reply this comment
  10. Capt. Karl 19 July, 2016, 18:49

    I was wondering what WE should do about Cops who knowingly violate Due Process, Equal Justice Under the Law, our God endowed individual unalienable Rights, and our Bill of Rights for the sole purpose of Taxation By Citation, through enforcement of codes and statutes that are utterly repugnant to The Constitution, Federal and Supreme Court case Law?

    This is a terribly vitally important topic that WE HAVE TO DISCUSS, because many Billions of Dollars are being extracted from our local hometown economies through enforcement of “Color Of Law” which is a major violation of The Constitution. Some Middle Class and poor families are going without because one or both parents, who do not know their Rights or the rule of law, are not being allowed to drive to go to work or take their kids to school, go grocery shopping, and their money is being stolen from them. There are so many things wrong with enforcing “Color Of Law” on so many different levels.

    And, according to statistics, nearly double the WHITES are being murdered by Cops at Constitutionally unlawful “Traffic Stops” than Blacks. This has to come to an end!

    See Case Law on Traffic Codes here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5sCt0u-g_H8Q1hQZlhqVkh1aVE/view?usp=sharing

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  11. Terry 19 July, 2016, 18:54

    In reading all this I am truly surprised by thebroad brush used to denigrate LE. I disagree with premise that so few cops are honorable.I know the cops in my neck of the woods and to a man they all live up to their oath and work very hard to “serve and protect” their communities honestly and I also know they are all human beings with families.

    With this said I am going to have to decide whether to continue my associate membership with OathKeepers. As for the individual defending BLM I will support them the day they recant and apologize for their incendiary rhetoric of ” pigs ina blanket, fry’ em like bacon” and wanting dead cops NOW.That willnever happen. So if the leadership of OathKeepers persist in their broad brush painting LE as bad cops I will not blindly follow them down this dangerous path and will openly opine against their dangerous rhetoric unless they publush concrete evidence to prove their so far unsupported allegations against LE, our last line of defense against tyranny and anarchy. Shame on you.

    Reply this comment
    • Elias Alias 19 July, 2016, 19:19

      Did you notice that the two guests whom David quoted are themselves Cops? Maybe you skipped over this when you read the article —

      “…police officers and tactical trainers Greg McWhirter (former Indianapolis cop and current Montana corrections) and John Karriman (Missouri Police Academy Defensive Tactics instructor)…”

      Are you saying these two fine gentlemen, who ARE COPS, are not being truthful in their essays in the above article?

      If you want to blindly think there are not a lot of bad cops out there who managed to get hired and avoid detection as they entered the force, go ahead and think that, but I can tell you that I’ve personally seen incredible sins and crimes by cops in uniform, two events of which ended in death. My family was interviewed by the FBI regarding witnessing a cop killing a man in Memphis not long ago, and there were those 17 Memphic City cops who got caught running a drug ring in north Memphis many years ago, and there were the two cops who murdered an old hippy in midtown Memphis and dumped his body in a snowbank in Overton Park, and what about the two cops who pulled their car to the curb when I was walking from the local convenience store with a jug of milk and wanted to know if “You want to fight, Bitch?” That was long ago, during my hippie years, in a time in which “hippies” were the government’s enemy (Remember COINTELPRO?) because we hippies opposed the highly immoral, sinful, international war crime committed by our beloved government named the Viet Nam War, remember that? This damned federal government does nothing but lie through its teeth and use the police to enforce its will upon the people by persecuting dissidents like Martin Luther King and millions of other Americans who see through the bogus illegal overseas “wars” which are murdering innocents and creating “enemies” who hate our guts. The police are being trained as we speak to see Americans as “the enemy” or “the bad guys”. The police individually are accepting their militarized roles as SWAT team members doing over 70,000 home invasions each year, most over some unconstitutional pack of bullshit laws called the “war on drugs”, which any cop who thinks about it two minutes will have to confess is underwritten by the government assertion of ownership over your and my bodies — an assertion which is NOT constitutional. No damned man-made government on earth has any granted authority to own your or my bodies, yet cops enforce that insanity unquestioningly and have ruined millions of young peoples’ lives over a damned weed which grows wild in Nature. So you go ahead and tell me how damned righteous “all cops” in your area are, and I’ll offer up a toast to them, but in my own damn life I’ve seen many more than just one bad apple in the barrel.
      Please read this and tell me if you still think so highly of today’s militarized cops: https://www.oathkeepers.org/an-empire-strikes-home-part-one/

      And in spite of all I’ve seen, I still love, respect, and appreciate dearly all GOOD cops, and I still believe that at least in rural America the most of them are very honorable people. I also know why the beligerent attitudes of so many cops in cities seems to be so prevalent, and that I lay as blame at the feet of the idiots who live in large cities and who have bought into the cultural Marxism which is tearing down our families, our value systems, our sense of personal responsibility, our dignity as individuals, and the outright evil which infests so many city-dwellers’ mental states. God bless the good cops who have to work the inner cities. Oath Keepers is calling on the good cops to expose the evil ones, and for the life of me I can’t see how you can object to that.
      Thanks for reading here.
      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor

      Reply this comment
      • Longbow 20 July, 2016, 00:38

        Well said, Elias. Cops rarely look in the mirror and cop worshipers see their heroes through myopic rose colored glasses.

        I have said before, and I will keep saying, if the Vast Majority were such good guys, there wouldn’t be any bad cops. They would police their own to such an extent that “bad cops” wouldn’t be able to find employment, much less hide behind their fellow Gang members.

        Do you think Lon Horiuchi was taken back to the Team room at Quantico and given a vigorous wall to wall counseling after he murdered Vicky Weaver? Do you believe those “good guys” who are supposedly the “vast majority” encouraged Horiuchi to find another line of work? Or, were there back slaps and high fives all around, with the assurance of “Don’t worry bud, you did the right thing… we got yer back!”

        I too will support good cops, when they are worthy of it.

        http://pluckingtheyew.blogspot.com/2016/07/learning-wrong-lesson-from-dallas.html

        Reply this comment
        • Stewart Rhodes 20 July, 2016, 13:05

          You know, I am trying to save cop lives by helping them catch a clue that they are losing the good will of the American people, and not just in black communities – in all communities, and I am especially trying to get them to realize they are losing credibility in the eyes of the warrior class of this nation, and that is the military, military veterans, and gun owners. That is just a fact, whether Terry wants to acknowledge it or not. To me, a “good cop” who does not stop the truly bad cop is not really a good cop. A truly good cop would stop the bad cop. Anything less makes them an accessory after the fact.

          Cops, clean up your act and clean your own ranks. If you don’t, you will be seen as the enemy by great swaths of the American people, including the veterans, and that is not a safe thing to do.

          Now, Terry, in response to the cop killings by racist, radical Marxists, we will be stepping up and directly protecting police and their families. We will put ourselves into harms way, directly, to stand with them against these enemies of the Republic. But while we do that, we have to also give them some “tough love” by calling a spade a spade in what we see in the LEO profession, and what we see are “good cops” failing to reign in and purge the bad ones. Like Frank Serpico said two years ago in an interview he did with Politico, we need to get to the point where the bad cops fear the good ones, not the other way round. He then said “we are not there yet.” The very same corruption and circling of the wagons and covering for bad cops that he saw way back in 72, is still there, to the point that whistleblowers are still punished rather than the bad cops, and if you blow the whistle on a “brother cop” you are thereafter black-balled by the other cops on the force, just like Serpico was. That is the overwhelming pattern. Are you saying that is not true? You got evidence to back that assertion up?

          As I said in my comment, I know for a fact there are good cops, because I personally know some, but that doesn’t change the pattern, which is obviously that the great majority of “good cops” DO NOT put a stop to the bad cops, and instead tend to look the other way, or simply be silent. They do that out of a self-reservation motive, and no doubt reason that if they blow the whistle, they will be side-lined and eventually purged, for breaking that blue wall of silence, and then they, the good cop, will not be there inside the system to try to reform it. That is true, but what kind of reform will they successfully institute if they are afraid to blow the whistle against the rotten apple right in front of them?

          I’m not a cop, but I have seen enough, with my own eyes while working as a criminal defense attorney in small-town Montana to know that cops lie in their reports, lie on the stand, and illegally stalk and attempt to intimidate people they have decided are “dirtbags” and I know they violate the Fourth Amendment on a routine basis, by using trumped up bullshit reasons to pull people over and then justify a search. It happens, and it happens alot.

          And I also know that unless a cop is filmed violating someone’s rights, by some citizen with a cell phone they did not know was there, that bad cop will doctor the reports and the evidence to justify what he did, and other cops will not stop him. I know that because I have seen it over and over.

          And sometimes, like with that poor 12 year old kid in Cleveland, Tamir Rice, there can be video of a cop killing someone in an indefensible and inexcusable manner (frankly, manslaughter or murder) and he is STILL let off the hook.

          Terry, you do none of the police any service by blindly saying that there are only a few bad apples. That is simply not the case. There are many bad apples, and the good apples are not rooting them out at anywhere the rate they need to, in order to avoid the whole bunch being seen as rotten by the great mass of the American people.

          We are trying to help the good cops root out the bad ones, but the first step in that is to clue them into the fact that they have a very real public relations problem across the nation ,and across demographics, in every community.

          Right now, by simply saying we will back the cops against the cop killers, we are getting angry emails from conservatives, constitutionalists, and libertarians who have lost faith in cops, and think we are now cop apologists.

          Hence the need to strike a balance. We WILL back the cops up against the cop killers, so long as the cops are not taking action that directly violates the Bill of Rights while we do so (we will judge them as individuals, and as departments, when it comes to that), so our default will be to give them the benefit of a doubt, as an expression of our good will, and offer to help protect them and their families, but if they then turn around and violate people’s rights, such as by putting in place “temporary” bans on the right to keep and bear arms in an area, or bans on assembly and free speech, then we simply cannot back them up while they do that, or we will be breaking our own oaths. We cannot and will not take part in violations of the Constitution. But we will give the local cops a chance to do it right, with our direct support, as a show of good will by us.

          So, we will step up in general, and unless they then show themselves to be direct oath breakers, we will continue to back them up, physically and in person, so long as they do not cross some pretty clear and serious lines (see our Declaration of Ten Order We Will Not Obey).

          But the police need to reform themselves and root out the bad people. If they don’t, they will lose what little good will they have left, and if that happens, there is no MRAP, no drone, no surveillance, no weaponry, no face masks, etc that will ever keep them safe. They need to understand that they are being set up to be the cannon fodder of the regime and they need to resist the temptation to further militarize or further adopt an “us v them’ posture where they treat us all like potential cop killers. They need to take a step back, make a sincere commitment to the Constitution and to working with us veterans to secure our communities.

          Anything else will lead to disaster for them.

          Understand?

          Stewart

          Reply this comment
      • Stewart Rhodes 20 July, 2016, 13:13

        I agree with Elias that the police in rural areas tend to be far more respectful of the Constitution and of the rights of people (and just more friendly and laid back) but as I said in my other comment responding to Terry, I have still seen police do bad things even in small town Montana. I have seen them lie on the stand, fabricate evidence, and abuse people on the street. I have also seen corruption in small town departments, and yes, that involved drugs – a very real problem of corruption that stems directly from the “war on drugs” which makes illicit drugs immensely profitable. The temptation is just too much for some cops to resist, and they are eventually bought off by the drug dealers, or become drug dealers themselves, as Elias said. Not all, but some. It is real, and it even happens in small town Montana, unfortunately. I wish it wasn’t so, but it is. Does that mean I will forsake all cops? No. I will not give up on them, and trying to help them reform. But I can’t shut my eyes to the reality.

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    • PresterJohn 30 July, 2016, 13:53

      I’m not sure the point of your comment. My statements are drawn from forty years of experience studying, training, teaching and physically doing the job at multiple levels. Being critical of the ranks of LE wasn’t done to bring discredit to the job, but to shed light on one of the prevailing problems- the quality of the individual that seeks employment in that field (but are not even remotely suited). The public (who gets to deal with LE periodically) understands that such an important job deserves individuals that are up to the task, not simply those that think it would be cool. The sheepdog/wolf/sheep analogy exists for a reason. LE deserves true sheepdogs in that role. Unfortunately, sheep and wolves creep in at an alarming rate. Pick any number of reasons why it’s tolerated- budgetary constraints, lack of connection to an area, a micromanagement culture, lack of an eligible pool of candidates, sheep and wolves already imbedded in the system…. Most problems begin early during the hiring and vetting process, where those responsible believe they can train monkeys to do the job or that the job should be done by the Barney Fife type who is easily controlled. I applaud the individual that brings honor and distinction to this necessary occupation. Conversely, I am more than happy to see those unqualified to seek employment elsewhere.

      Oath Keepers isn’t for everyone. I would hate to see you leave because we disagree on a topic.

      Reply this comment
  12. thataway 19 July, 2016, 19:55

    “Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn’t even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.”
    ― Heraclitus Greek Philosopher 535 – c. 475 BC

    This was brought to my attention by a person who worked in the U S Marshals service Fugitive Task Force, and the saying was on the office wall. It certainly holds true for the military, and I believe for Law Enforcement.

    I am not in law enforcement, but have worked with many on a professional basis. I have found this saying true in many professions. I suspect it holds true in the “Myth”. From an observer’s side I have certainly seen abuses, and coverup. But there are those who have the guts to come forward, and be honest.

    No matter, this targeting of any law enforcement officers for any reason must stop. The fact that it has been propagated for political reasons is shameful. Too bad that those who are responsible cannot be prosecuted. Those citizens who are truly situational aware, know this; Thus the rebellion against the current political parties.

    Reply this comment
    • Stewart Rhodes 20 July, 2016, 13:19

      “No matter, this targeting of any law enforcement officers for any reason must stop. The fact that it has been propagated for political reasons is shameful. Too bad that those who are responsible cannot be prosecuted. Those citizens who are truly situational aware, know this; Thus the rebellion against the current political parties.”

      Well said, and we agree completely, which is why Oath Keepers are on the ground, as we speak, in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, standing with the police against the cop killers. And we will be doing that all over the nation, with our Operation Backstop.

      Stewart

      Reply this comment
  13. Bisley 19 July, 2016, 20:39

    John Karriman has it pretty well right. We’re always going to have a certain percentage of misfits — every profession gets some of the mean and crazy, the liars, thieves, drunks, idiots, etc., but there is no longer an adequate process to screen most of them out before they’re hired, and it’s much harder to dispose of them afterward.

    Once, the better police agencies were selective, and weren’t interested in taking on anyone who wasn’t above average, both mentally and physically. Since the political drive to hire more women, blacks, latinos, Muslims, etc., standards are almost non-existent (I read somewhere recently that some police forces are hiring ex-cons, or thinking of it). Unless the political pendulum swings back toward sanity, we’re going to get even more physically and mentally unfit police screwing up their jobs, creating trouble, instead of preventing it — and covering for each other because most of them are equally unfit. God help the good cops — the actions of the others and the unreasonable duties forced on them by politicians are going to make their job more difficult and dangerous.

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  14. CSM Joe T Jones 19 July, 2016, 22:09

    This is really bad timing. All of us in LE are hurting right now. Can’t we revisit this in the near future?

    Reply this comment
    • Longbow 20 July, 2016, 01:03

      Joe,

      Respectfully, no. NOW is exactly the right time. Right now is the time to look in the mirror and ask yourself, “How did we get here?” If you put the question off until later, it will never be addressed. Loss of legitimacy happened with the black community long ago. It is in the process of happening, right now, with the rest of society. Policemen must recognize that fact first. Otherwise, this will only get worse.

      Reply this comment
  15. Mindy 19 July, 2016, 22:29

    Very well written. Yes there are bad cop’s , I have had the misfortune to run into a few, please be aware, not because I was causing trouble or committing a serious crime. Interesting enough, one occasion was a black cop, he pulled me over for expired tabs. This was in TX during the summer. My baby was in the car , this cop was simply harassing me, this went on for so long that I feared for my baby, I finally told him, I’m taking my baby home, if you want to arrest me you can follow me. I filed a complaint against him, turns out , it wasn’t the first one. Question is , was the cop a racist or just a jerk? Once was because my tire blew out on the hwy , a hwy that on a heavy traffic day 5 rigs would pass in an hour. I didn’t have a jack so had to get help. A cop pulled up , silly me I thought he was going to offer help to myself and 12 year old daughter, I was wrong. He was so out of line I held out my hands and told him to arrest me right now or get the hell out of there. He did leave , he knew what he was doing was illegal. On the other hand, there was the cop that helped me change a tire, a cop that rescued my baby from an abusive and drunk husband, I mean this cop got deeply involved, somewhat handcuffed by the laws, it took a couple of hours but he finally lawfully retrieved my baby and threw my x in jail. Anyway’s , bottom line, it’s not a matter of racist cops, it’s a matter of bad cops who don’t care what color their victim is, they are just bad cops.

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  16. Unknown Ranger 20 July, 2016, 03:31

    My opinion of Law-enforcement is pretty dismal ; I live in California ; Law-enforcement here operate like predator’s , most law abiding citizens are scared too call the police , when they have been victimize , for fear of being victimized twice by Law – enforcement ; We are treated like enemy combatant’s , when the police show up at the door ; Studies in California have shown that calling the police for help your nine time’s more likely too get shot I personally have witnessed police pull a gun on children twice under the age of ten , that had squirt gun’s in their hand’s both times I personally had too intervene , because my gut feelings made me feel that both these police officer’s were going too shoot these kids and when I said stop those are squirt gun’s both times the police were stunned to find out that they were about too shoot a kid with a squirt gun in their hand’s ; I personally have been cited for dropping a cigarette ash on the street while driving ; The cop’s never show up to court !! I can go on and on about what I have seen officer’s do too law abiding citizens , that were clearly unconstitutional , if not criminal in my opinion ; Somthing need’s too be done about police misconduct and as other’s have stated on this site ; ” Where are the so called good cop’s ” ? ” Why do they cover for each other, when one of their own violate the right’s of another citizen ” ? That’s all I got to say !!!

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  17. Stewart Rhodes 20 July, 2016, 20:56

    John Karriman asked me to add this additional comment:

    FROM JOHN KARRIMAN:

    I would like for us all to be as open about the sad state of affairs as we can from our various perspectives, while not appearing to go out of our way to give offense. If I was too off-base for some concerning my remarks about fellow LE or that I had strayed into intentionally-being-inflammatory territory for others; that was not my intention. Truths can be stated without being offensive. Our founding fathers were magnificent at it. I’m still learning.

    The fact is, some in LE have never experienced really evil people or graft and corruption or murder or _______ in their town, let alone inside their own ranks. They’re content (and safe, for now) in their little piece of “untouched” real estate and therefore have a skewed, Pollyanna-esque world view. In their little blue heaven; that stuff only happens in books or movies. If that’s you, then bless your simple-life-living, self! The fact is; it’s a scary and dangerous place out there. Relatively speaking, relatively few are up to the task. To all of you who are doing the job in a manner befitting its importance; I salute you. Because we have not overcome all the negative press and attitudes generated by the other side against us; we have to look at the reasons. I always start with the man in the mirror, but of course; we’re getting lots of help (help as in, the opposite of help).

    The sad state of affairs, whether its officer moral inside a department or community sentiments toward LE (rightfully or not); it’s all driven by incidents that are perceived as bad. Bad by both sides. Bad for for both sides. For main stream media; the majority of their stories are driven by an obvious agenda to leave LE with a black eye and loss of just a little more trust from the very people they have sworn oaths to protect. Theirs is a bias to intentionally downplay or obfuscate details if it involves a minority, but magnify (even if it is a stretch) the threat level if it involves a Caucasian. They resort to some extreme stretches of the imagination to cast aspersions or make connections. So I blame the hack journalists for not truthfully presenting the news.

    For the minority community; anger is fanned and driven by self-appointed leaders that play upon existing fears (sometimes with non-existent issues, sometimes with blatant lies, always for self aggrandizement). Turning chaos and strife into a cottage industry should be illegal. I blame these self-stylized merchants of mayhem that do not have the best interests of our country or their community at heart.

    For the officer, it’s everything from poor pay and micro management from above (or from outside) to the impotent justice system, where attorneys play let’s make a deal in matters of great personal suffering or loss of life. Some of these failures can be laid at the feet of our broken system of checks and balances. These are but a handful of the issues.

    My Momma told me, she said, “Son, if you don’t quit pickin’ it; it aint gonna heal.” About the time I thought we’d finally hit a place of relative peace between the races, things got stirred up again. Matrix Entertainment is working on a film about the media as a vast propaganda machine and how it has brought us to this present situation. This topic of race won’t predominate the film’s content, but will be covered.

    As far as my statements, I know how cops think. For some, my bluntness was taken as condemnation against these latest shootings by LE (and therefore, support for these attacks or at least, sympathy for their cause). That’s hardly the case. The shooting in front of the convenience store (after weighing all the evidence) looked righteous. The other is being spun using video footage after the fact to somehow rewind time and take at face value the driver’s version of events before she started filming. Typical of the controlled media. All these incidents are scrutinized from on high and when the officer(s) is exonerated, but the result is rejected; it’s time to look at perceptions again (and their intentional shaping). Why is the community not accepting of these verdicts by members of their own community? Because it doesn’t fit the bias they have been saddled with. Truth and facts go out the window when you have been programmed to believe a thing, even if it is a lie.

    Final words for all my brothers and sisters in Blue out there: You are policing in one of the craziest times in man’s history and they keep changing the rules on you. Just remember; you are uniquely equipped to do a dangerous job. Always err on the side of caution so you can continue to serve and be able to go home to your families at the end of your shift. You are paid athletes; start training like it. You are modern day knights; start acting like it. Some of you have followed stand-down orders and allowed criminality to take place in the past. Will you be standing down when the same folks give unConstitutional orders for you to interact inappropriately with your fellow man? Take time to familiarize yourself with what an Oath Keeper is and what they do (and sometimes, don’t do). Time to get off the fence.

    john k

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  18. USMC0351Grunt 20 July, 2016, 21:05

    I must say that I’m on both sides of the fence with this issue because back in 91 to 1994 if you look up Romeo vs. City of Albuquerque City of Albuquerque Police Department and the Bernalillo County Jail you will find that I took 5 bad cops into bad County jailers out of the system and relieve the City of Albuquerque $45,000 to remind them to do their policing properly.

    Now for the Rer, rer, res. REST of the story!

    If you were on the ground with me here in Cleveland Ohio at the RNC, you would be able to see firsthand the thousands of City County Sheriff’s State Patrol Troopers Secret Service Homeland Security investigations, FBI, ATF fire departments EMTs and many other agencies working together as the biggest and most expensive well-oiled machine ever put together in law enforcement almost as if they practiced together everyday day in and day out for 6 months straight to coordinate the efforts and how they cover each other’s backs how they respond to situations how they respond to people giving them Intel such as what occurred many times with the team of Stewart Rhodes Jack Lee David could read and many others feeding me information so that I could pass it on to law enforcement and that they could get on top of the situation before it occurred or begin an investigation and stop any violence that may occur.

    From the way that the officers treated me when I was doing security for Joe Biggs Alex Jones Infowars crew, to the way that they responded when the rest of the crowd went Bonkers when ordered to back up and they brought horses in to push the crowd back the officers responded in kind two hand motions and things that I said to them to allow me to assist Joe Biggs another security person he had with him and crew members to safely get them out of the area without being shoved around by police where’s the other knuckleheads word receptive to the LEO’s and acting like dumbasses and they were treated like dumbasses where’s my people were able to safely transition the crowd and move out into a clear area so that they continue getting their story without interference by law enforcement.

    If you’ve got a beef against the cops it’s probably because of two simple reasons you don’t know or understand them or you caused the problem with them that you won’t let go.

    They are just as human as you however they always go above and beyond every single day can you brag about that?

    If you’ve got a problem with law enforcement you better check your attitude and refocus because when your ass is in a sling they’re the only ones that are going to give a damn about you to show up.

    It was remarkable how Stewart Rhoades, Jack Lee, David Codrea and others were able to feed me so much Intel about possible threats in the area that I was able to pass on the law enforcement. They were amazed and every time I told them that’s because I’m on a team called Oath Keepers and we’ve got your back.

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  19. DoNotCall911 21 July, 2016, 09:38

    I am 71 and an OK since 2009. My father-in-law came up through the ranks to become Chief. I was not born yesterday. Morals in this country have been in a steep steady decline since my generation. LE was always a good-old-boy institution. To me those fighting the decades of unconstitutional wars were oath-breakers. FedGov has militarized LE and ex-military are perfect to go into LE ranks. LE is now just more ‘tours’ and citizens are the enemy. LE is totally out of control.

    I’ve seen it right here in NW Montana with innocent citizens being shot by LE and SWAT. A woman was reported by a 3rd party to be alone and supposedly ‘suicidal’. Did her Pastor show up? No, an armored SWAT vehicle showed up. The woman wanted to be left alone in her home. Don’t all of us want that? She was armed. I’m armed in my home right now. So what? Long story short: SWAT leader fired a volley of 15 shots from his AR-15. The majority of the rounds hit the cowling of the armored vehicle. Woman in critical condition. Leader gets time off, with pay of course (aka vacation to us working slobs). Two months later Gov find “no policy violation”. Wow, I’m stunned (yea right). Rambo goes back to ‘work’. Gov drops charges against woman. How nice of them. Yep, they are above the law.

    I give up. Honestly, todays oath-breaking US military and LE should be in jail. Of course there are some good ones, but fewer each year. I realize that OKs depends on retired LE and military. Good luck choosing the good apples.

    Reply this comment
    • Stewart Rhodes 22 July, 2016, 02:48

      We don’t “depend” on retired LE and military. It is our MISSION to get as many of them to honor their oaths as possible. So, us awake, aware, and dedicated veterans do our best to reach out to the rest. With police, as I said at length above, it is an uphill battle because of the “us v. them” and “anyone not a cop is a potential dirt bag or potential threat” mindset. And, as John Karriman said, the job attracts the wrong kind, and the “good cops” just do not purge the bad ones out (with few exceptions).

      So, it is a bleak picture, but we have to try. But I understand why you have given up. And the police, in particular, are now nearly run out of “good will” chits from the American people. Frankly, we are offering them one final chance to repent and reform themselves, before all the good will is gone from all the people.

      We have to try,

      Stewart

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  20. Yoda 21 July, 2016, 13:59

    Before you read this reply, you should watch the movie The Valley of Elah. It stars Tommy Lee Jones. The message for us all is at the very end of the movie. It has to do with the raising of the flag. By the end of the movie, you will either come to a revelation or you won’t. But the message of the movie has everything to do with what I’m about to say.

    First, I will say that the impact of BLM is the only reason we have an article titled The Blue Wall of Silence. Things just had to get this bad before we would be forced to take a hard look at a problem that is totally FUBAR.

    Secondly, this is not just a ’blue on black’ phenomenon. It has been happening to all races, including whites. Listing every instance of unjustified shootings would take up too much time and space.

    In November of last year, I posted a thread in the Faraday Cage of the forums titled ‘Something’s Wrong With the po-po’. It referenced my suspicion that there was a psychological operation taking place within law enforcement. My goal was to have LE members speak up and Identify the problem. That didn’t happen. I think now that I know why there was a lack of response. The rational mind cannot discern the reason behind irrational behavior.

    Unjustified shootings cannot be limited only to law enforcement. It has also happened and is happening in the military. It goes all the way back to Viet Nam for me. The military, for the most part, has been successful in covering up these events. Thank God for today’s social media of today.

    .So why are folks being shot when they present no signs of being a threat? As I have said, it is happening to all races. These incidents are happening, for the most part, when two or more law enforcement officers are dealing with only one individual and the individual is attempting to comply with the demands of the officers or after the individual has been completely subdued. What follows is totally irrational. One or more of the officers fires on the individual. Can you explain why? I’m sure that you cannot. I’m also fairly sure that the officer who fired the shots can’t explain why either.

    I would love to be in a position to interview these officers because I believe that most of them are the victims of a psychological operation. Am I talking about a ‘Manchurian Candidate’ style of psyop? Yes, I am. Most folks won’t even give that possibility the credibility that it deserves. And, for that reason, the possibility will not be explored and, therefore, goes undetected. That is the creation of the ‘perfect crime’. You have the victim and the shooter. The truth is that you have two victims; the one shot and the one who did the shooting. What is never uncovered are the ones who performed the psyop on the shooter. And the shooter can’t comprehend it so he can’t explain it.

    Have clandestine psychiatric operations been developed to that extent? Well, I’ve had some personal experience in that area some 30 years ago and, back then, things hadn’t reached that degree of sophistication. But how much has it developed since I was exposed to it? I can only imagine at this point. Are TPTB employing it? Oh, I believe they are. What triggers a mind to snap and commit an action that is so totally against the moral essence of a man’s soul? Sane and rational one moment and then the act of irrational response takes place. Once the act is committed, the person returns to being sane and rational. Of course, he can’t explain what happened.

    Is this subject just too deep for us to wrap our heads around? This appears to be the case for most folks. I will, however, ask you the following questions. If this were possible, would it not be an awesome weapon? Would TPTB be more than willing to fund its development? Would they use it? Can you not see how it would fit into their playbook?

    Perhaps you might be more accepting if we discuss a more general type of psyop. This one is being carried out in plain sight. It is the zombie exercises that are being conducted by both law enforcement and military. This is a general psyop of mind conditioning. The purpose is to condition the mind to view ordinary citizens as less than human. After all, it’s easy to kill a zombie. The zombies must all be killed to make the world a safer and better place. This is the ‘us vs them’ scenario on steroids and it is taking place throughout law enforcement and the military. A person might be normal and rational but, when placed in that particular combat configuration, the psyop kicks in. It’s going to come into play when the chaos ramps up. That is when LE and military will become vulnerable to the psyop.

    In conclusion, I would ask that you all give some consideration to everything that I have said. It gives an answer for why the shooter can’t explain why he did what he did. It gives an answer for why fellow officers can’t explain why their brother officer did what he did. And it gives an answer for why police departments can’t explain why one of their officers did what he did. No one can explain it because there is no rational answer.

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    • Elias Alias 21 July, 2016, 15:22

      I think you are right on target. I would like to offer you at least the first three installments of my older (2011) series on Jose Guerena’s death-by-SWAT on May 05, 2011. I took some time to lay in enough data to expose the over-all “Policy” emanating from WDC which has done this to our soldiers and cops as they are now being de-humanized in what (I totally agree with you) is a massive psy-op. These are long articles which are tucked away in our Oath Keepers Academy. When we lost our site in 2014 the original articles in this series were not recovered, so I have re-built them and have just now completed that task. I’ve still got some polishing work to do in places in the series, such as testing old links etc. However, what I wrote five years ago was at that time a bit of a stretch for most readers but today is quite self-evident to the common perception — it’s in our face now, in living technicolor. Do at least the first three, okay? Thanks, and thank you for seeing “behind the curtain” with your own observation. I think your vision and mine are on the same page.

      Part One – https://www.oathkeepers.org/an-empire-strikes-home-part-one/

      Part Two – https://www.oathkeepers.org/an-empire-strikes-home-part-two/

      Part Three – https://www.oathkeepers.org/an-empire-strikes-home-part-three/

      Part Four – https://www.oathkeepers.org/an-empire-strikes-home-part-four/

      Part Five — https://www.oathkeepers.org/an-empire-strikes-home-part-five/

      Lastly, “Welcome Home, Bro!”

      Salute!
      Elias Alias, editor (another one they probably now wish they’d have killed in Viet Nam when they could do it without causing a fuss, kno’ what I mean?)

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  21. Ben 21 July, 2016, 20:29

    I have 40 years in law enforcement and can tell you that the majority of Officers have been great. These two experts are really people with no concept of people but have a chip on their shoulder for some reason. I know longer will keep my membership with the Oathkeepers because this Organization is going down the PC path like everyone else. I guess all weak and scared people react like this, shameful.

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    • Yoda 23 July, 2016, 08:28

      Ben, I am very puzzled by your response. This article is about addressing a problem. The problem is obvious and the problem is growing. After 40 years of law enforcement, all you can contribute to the subject is to say that the majority of Officers have been great? I think that most, probably all, of us believe that the majority of the Officers are great. But that’s all you have to say? After 40 years of LE service, I would think that you should be able to contribute something that could be valuable towards the solution of the problem. Instead you just want to quit. The boys in blue are being shot because of this problem. Your brothers and sisters have become targets because of this problem. Who is standing with the boys in blue? I do believe it is us. You have come to the wrong conclusion. You should rethink this issue. I’ve always heard that, if you are not willing to be part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

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